SB-1094 is the strike everything bill which resurrected HB-2374 from the dead, only now the language and the consequences are worse. This bill will now not only significantly change the definitions and applicability of the planned community act, it will require that existing community documents contain explicit language. It is my contention that HOA attorneys will capitalize on the language in this bill to argue and advise all planned community boards that because their governing documents do not contain the "explicit language" which in fact none of them do, that all planned communities will no longer have to be subject to the planned community act. The arguments presented at the Gov. Hearing last Thursday by the proponents included the RCSC is not a HOA, and quite frankly, I agree. But it is still a planned community. In fact, the words HOA or Home Owners Association do not appear anywhere in the Act. This is not the HOA Act, it is the Planned Communities Act and planned communities are based upon financial commitment based on ownership, not covenants which control how you paint your house. The other argument is that the RCSC was formed and incorporated under Title 10 and not Title 33. Once again that fact is every planned community was incorporated under Title 10. Title 33 and the planned community act's sole purpose for existence is to provide specific protections to homeowners not afforded under the nonprofit corporation act of Title 10. Where do we go from here? There are several aspects of the this bill that fall under the purview of the Rules committee to determine. While this is usually reviewed by the Rules Attorney and the committee does what is recommended by the Attorney, the committee still gets to vote on whether the bill is appropriate for further consideration by the full house. The Committee emails are akern@azleg.gov; tshope@azleg.gov; rbower@azleg.gov; bnutt@azleg.gov; wpetersen@azleg.gov; despinoza@azleg.gov; ddegrazia@azleg.gov; asalman@azleg.gov The issues before the committee we want to emphasize are: That because this is a significant change to the clear definition and applicability of the planned community act which significantly impairs the vested rights granted in the protection provided by the planned community act to all homeowners it cannot be altered retroactively. That the provisions that allows a community to vote to change the provisions and definitions of the act are unconstitutional, because only the legislature can change the law. The public cannot speak to the rules committee, you can still post a request to speak with comments for this committee's consideration. This will be your most effective tool. Everything else is irrelevant to this committee, so please don't waste their time on passion and issues unrelated to the appropriateness of this legislation by the house as a whole. There is a need for one Republican to vote against it and the bill dies a second time. Only in this committee does a tie kill the bill. Please write to the above listed legislators and state the logic and reasoning as to why this bill need not move forward. The Rules committee next meets on Monday, 04/08/2019 at 1:30 pm in HHR 4. Please take the time to sign up for and post your commentary on a request to speak. Excerpts pulled from the Arizona Homeowners Coalition Legislative Update 04/05/2019
This is an interesting argument and one that begs the question: Why did the AZ legislature write and pass the planned communities act? Clearly the statute affords home owners protections against associations that overstep their bounds, so why would legislators now want to take steps backwards? Giving communities the opt out feature on its face sounds reasonable, but when you consider how the RCSC sold this bill, it becomes clear how easy it is to steer folks away from logical decisions. It is reminiscent of what the RCSC did back when they changed the quorum from 100 to 3500 (and then reduced it to 1250). Those safeguards against stupid were sold on the premise we were going to protect ourselves from ourselves. Say what? Yup, that's what we did, and the simple truth is, we changed the game forevermore. The concentration of power into the management/boards hands was the new world order. In retrospect, it was one of the worst decisions ever made by the RCSC board and my guess is directors had little or no clue just how bad they screwed the community by that one single action. If you think this bill, if it passes, won't have the same kind of potential impact, guess again. Unfortunately, we (people in general) have disengaged from the process of governance even more than we were 10 or 15 years ago. The less we pay attention, the worse we get screwed...and sadly, we don't even recognize when it happens.
Bill, I so agree with you and the disengaging from our own government and its processes. As I read and reread your commentary, it became clear to me we have so little expectation from our leadership. If the boss says its good, it must be good, right? This is the way of living in the world by way of sound byte. Only in this country can we have a leader which sends out drivel for political answers and gets congratulated for doing so. When we send out emails to various government officials, it may as well have been dropped off in a post box, and had a stamp pasted on it. Email is not quick enough anymore to get to the best and the brightest first. Twitter accounts are not posted for most politicians, why? Because the reverb is fast and furious and demands someone pay attention now. 100 tweets can be sent in the same time it takes to address and send two emails. Answers are wanted and needed quickly, as well as feedback and discussion. Partisan politics rules the halls of every government entity, as it is the last bastion of having someone tell you what direction to go in. All the while, those working in the speed of light and beyond laugh at the rest of lamenting where the breakdown occurred. Not saying the only reason for disengaging is the ability to run faster, smarter, harder than the other guy. It also has to do with our entire sociological structure. They are no longer teaching cursive writing because no one sees value in, yet there are those of us who won penmanship competitions for our articulation and ability to write in cursive which stood head and shoulders above our classmates. The removal of standard clocks from schools and other places because no one knows how to read a regular numeral clock anymore. My favorite, everyone gets a trophy, even if you didn't win, because we don't want t hurt anyone's feelings. Somewhere, things took a swift, hard turn, and while no one was looking, turned this country on its ear. This bill is indicative of what is wrong with the political processes of today. Cut off one's nose to spite one's face. Vote along the party lines, despite turning the apple cart completely upside. If this bill passes, it will take years, and millions in suits to regain the orderliness of the Planned Communities Act. Kind of like the RCSC and the quorum. Did you like the two answers at the Annual Meeting? The quorum has to be as high as it is as it is state law? Yep, that was the agreed to statement by two of the directors. Our Board of Directors has been spoon fed for so long, they have no idea what it means to be fully cognizant of what it is which is going on around them or aware of the Arizona Revised Statutes and how they affect and should guide their decisions. I know there are those of us doing all we can to make sure we are heard and not screwed. It will be an interesting ride over the next few weeks, but one I feel we are needing to take to try and save Sun City from the RCSC.
Hi you guys. Newbie here, thinking of relocating and purchasing in Sun City in the near future. If this bill moves forward and passes would it dissuade you from moving there? We stayed in a home on Quail Run Golf Course last year and really loved the area so we started researching. Since then I have come up with a few concerns and found this site to try and get more of a "feel" for the area. Thanks!
Hi Karen, welcome. Nothing would dissuade me from moving to Sun City again. This community and its amenities is great. We have the lowest cost of ownership of any Sun City Community, bar none. We have fantastic neighbors and love where we live in Phase 1. Politics are always going to be around, regardless of where you choose to live. Sun City will be having some growing pains as things move forward, both at the RCSC level, Maricopa County level and the state level. But I also see great things on the horizon, such as the mention of a performing arts center, new sounds systems for the free venues, and the changing of the meeting structure of the BOD. If you loved your visit, then you will love living here. All will be good, in one fashion or another, as we all work together for the greater good of Sun City.
Welcome from me as well Karen. Carole is right, Sun City is as good as it gets. Our argument is simple, it could be better. Irrespective of what happens with Title 10 or Title 33, the vast majority of residents will be oblivious. The governance just isn't all that important to them. Carole did a nice job of describing what has happened societally above. We've enhanced technology at the cost of dumbing down the masses. When Sun City was built in 1960 and for the better part of the first 40 years, people living here paid attention, got involved and tried to make a difference. Boomers changed that equation. Lots of reasons, but several of us would argue it has changed Sun City. I would say for the worse, most think it's just fine. I'll spare you why and would love to hear what your "concerns" are? I suspect we can answer anything that is troubling, or at least explain what it is you are feeling.
Thanks for the welcome, CW and BP. I agree that politics will be there wherever you land but Sun City has a form of govt that I've never had experience with. It seems Sun City because of it's unique beginning and type of community will be affected by this legislation more than others??? I suppose I have the same concerns as anyone thinking of relocating...crime, taxes, health care, caring community, utilities. Sun City seems affordable compared to our current home in western WA. I have been able to research taxes but still wonder about utilities. Health care looks to be top notch. From reading here I can see how much people like you two care about and love the community. I'm an over thinker/planner so always "wondering" about it all. lol. Thanks again. ps: BP your pool looks wonderful
To be frank, this legislation, if passed, will have an effect on numerous communities, not just Sun City. The short term reality is this too shall pass, and all will end up the way it needs to be, one way or the other. Sun City is a self governed, county island that is not a city despite its name. We fall under the auspices of Maricopa County and receive the bulk of our services via the county. The exception is the Sun City Fire Department. We have the county for our police, but we are very fortunate to have the volunteers of the Sun City Posse which donate countess hours of service to the community, and helps the Maricopa County police and others perform their services a little easier. I wish that Maricopa County Sheriffs Department would reinstate the crime reports, as it shows what activities happened where and when. The reports are currently on hold while being reviewed for usefulness. As I would read the reports for Sun City, almost all of the activity was due to availability of the items. A crime of convenience, per se. Cars not locked, windows left down, or packages left out in open sight, looking inviting to the thief. We do have major thoroughfares which run through Sun City, such as Bell Road, Grand Ave., Union Hills Blvd., just to name a few. These roads are ways most people go home or get to work daily, and the west and northwest side of town continues to grow. I do not know all of the neighbors names on my regular routes, but I do know the single lady in the corner house, as I have seen her take out her trash, pick up her paper, and talk to the mailman. I do not know the elderly couple at the four way stop, but I know them both by sight. If I am driving on one of my regular routes and I see someone approaching a front door or the side of the house and I have not seen them before in the neighborhood, I will pull over and put the car in park. With the car still running, and the doors locked, (I have a fob) I will approach the homeowner and ask if they were expecting this person to be here today. Were you expecting a visitor today? When they say no, I, with my cell phone still in hand, will politely ask them to leave. So far, no problems. I understand the door to door salesman wants to make a living too, just don't do it where I can see you. I also call SCHOA and let them know there are people soliciting folks and to please put out the word. You can freeze your tax valuation at age 65 and keep it at that same rate, renewing the tax freeze as needed. Utilities, now you got me. APS is the electric company which serves the Sun City area. They have the "summer" rates and the "winter" rates. Guess which ones are the highest? You guessed it, summer. But there are ways to mitigate some of those costs as well. One or the plans is to pay a flat monthly fee year around, and this way, you always know what you electric bill will be. APS does do an annual audit and will adjust the amount up or down, depending on usage. Other plans are called "saver" plans. You get the best rates when not using your large appliances during the high demand hours. Large appliances such as AC, Stove and the like. Or you can move in, and pay the regular rates for electric, depending on the time of year, and be quite content. We are on a saver plan which runs between 4-8 pm. Our winter bill is around $100 a month, making sure to use the clothes dryer during the off peak hours. Since we live in Phase 1, we also have gas in our home, so our furnace, hot water, and now, our stove, is gas. Big expense for the stove, but the savings are mounting up quickly. The summer can be as high as $285.oo. My disclaimer is we have a pool, security lights which stay on all night, and a security system which records 24X7. We keep the thermostat at 76 degrees and we did add energy efficient windows shortly after moving in. I also keep room darkening, insulated curtains on the windows so we can block out the heat during the day. Gas, with the 5 burner stove, runs about $60 a month, and yes, we cook almost every night at home. Whew, nothing like talking your ear off, but I tried to cover all of the bases a worrier/wondering kind of person might find concerning. Come on down, I used to work in WA and OR and I can tell you, it is a cheaper tax base, much better overall standard of living due to the abundant sunshine, if you like the sun that is, and if you come back to Phase 1, the bakery is still waiting for you, just a short walk from Quail Run. If there is, by chance, anything I didn't cover, feel free to ask, it is apparent I offer information and advice, even unsolicited, in abundance.
If the legislation passes as it is drafted it potentially could affect other communities way more than us. We have always operated under Title 10 and the board is operating, starting tomorrow, where the "work session" will be open to members. That's a first, we'll see how it goes. Carole did a good job on costs. Just think of it this way, utilities are going to be expensive no matter where you live. Our homes, if they haven't been updated will be more costly. Windows, doors and insulation are all something you need to pay attention to. Nope, not be afraid of, just mindful of the difference those things can make. Sadly, the Arizona Corporate Commission (ACC) who oversees utilities companies, used to be an asset to home owners. In 2014, there were multiple candidates running. Two of the democratic candidates were outspoken about where the ACC was headed, how they had lost sight of their mission. APS, our electric company, dumped 12 million dollars in dark money into supporting the republicans running. It was shameful and the direction of the ACC was changed forevermore. So you know, they aren't just for Sun City, so what they do impacts all of us in Arizona. Thanks on the pool. The reality is we have 7 rec centers and each has their own pool. Funny thing is, there are more pools in Sun City homes than you would think. Just do a GOOGLE earth and you can see what i mean. Health care is awesome, taxes are off the charts reasonable and local restaurants are geared for seniors. There is an economy of scale that once you live here, you see on a daily basis.
Hi Folks, the rules committee meets today at 1:30 pm. Please add your voice to this effort to defeat this bill and vote NO. This is a chance to have the bill die in committee, making it a non issue for communities covered by the Planned Communities Act. It does not make sense to delete consumer protections put in place by the legislature many years ago, be eliminated and destroyed for the benefit of the RCSC, one community. Please place you feeling on the Right to Speak site and tell the rules committee "NO" you are not in favor of this bill. Thank you in advance
Thank you for the detailed responses! So SC is governed by the county, RCSC is for the activities and is mandatory, SCHOA is for the community rules, right? I'm sure if i find a copy of the CC&Rs that will answer most questions regarding what is allowed and not in SC. We are in the process of selling our family home to our son and his wife and going to winter in our RV while hubby finishes up his last months of working. Then it's on to AZ and warm winters! Yay! Can we keep our RV at the house or will we have to find storage?
Great news about the RV. There is the Sun Cities RV Compound at 115th Avenue and Bell Road. This compound is for Sun Cities only, so SCW, Grand, Festival and others are the only members which can participate. The lot is staffed with a guard and is heavily fortified. The best feature, the price. We pay $250.00 a year for a 50 foot space. Rv lots locally charge several 100's per month. Look up the Sun Cities RV Compound on the web, they have all the information you could want on their site. One of the many benefits of being a member of the community.
I saw. I am so disheartened at this turn of events. This is politics at its finest or worst, whichever vernacular you choose to use. I cannot believe these people have no conscience around the protections afforded AZ residents and instead choose to look the other way. I will be writing more about what events can take place in order to try and circumvent this bill. I am just so disgusted right at the moment, I am not sure I can write anything which will do the upcoming process any justice. I thank all of you for reading and participating, your efforts are truly appreciated. More to come at a later time.
Truth and the American Way. Yep, this is the new political landscape and it has nothing to do with what is in the best interest of the consumer in any way, shape, or form. Nope what we have is American politics up for sale to the highest bidder, and this time it is the AACM, aka, Arizona Association of Community Members. And off on the sidelines, waiting for their piece are the hyena attorneys just waiting to swoop in and turn planned communities against each other and homeowner against homeowner, making money by charging homeowners extra for these unneeded services. Farnsworth had made agreements as to the outcomes of these resurrected bills,. All of that changed when AACM did not like my language because it would prevent them from gouging the associations and the homeowners with more outrageous cost and fees. It was totally an AACM love fest with their story of how great all community management firms are and how they all work so hard to do the best job they can for the associations they work for. It was totally nauseating. He simply and totally did not care about any consequences to the homeowner from his bill as long as AACM was happy with the language. The rules committee meeting went no better and both SB-1531 and SB-1094 passed thru the committee. What was interesting here is that SB-1094 was not singled out for discussion but grouped into a mass motion of 8 bills all being strike everything bills, but the vote had to be all or nothing. This clearly was an intentional act by the house and committee leadership, who by the way have refused all my meeting request to discuss this bill. When you already know the Party line why would you want to listen to the truth? Where do we go from here? These bills will be fast tracked to reduce the time for us to get to individual representatives. Both bills will be heard in Caucus today, and COW Wednesday or Thursday. Floor votes could be as early as Thursday but most probably on Monday. For SB-1094 we need to continue calling individual legislator’s offices and asking them to vote against this bill. At this point in time, more e-mails will be ineffective because of the flood of e-mails all the legislators have received. New ones will be lost in the crowd or simply deleted. Call the assistant and ask that he or she relay to the representative your opposition for this bill. Dennis Leger, of the Arizona Homeowners Coalition, already asked to meet with the governor or his policy advisor's on both these bills. It will not hurt if any or all of you also write the governor and ask the he meet with me, your representative for Arizona Homeowners Coalition. Go to the governor’s web site and there is a tab to contact the governor. If you have time, please use the tab at the Governors office to contact the him and voice your concerns. There is a great need to defeat voice the need for the governor to defeat this legislation, for the State of Arizona, but more over the residents of Arizona who will be most harmed by the bill passing. Some Text from Arizona Homeowners coalition with permission Dennis Leger.
This is the classic example of why i don’t get involved in politics and why i love Sun City. I’ve written often in my previous life i was way more political than i wanted to be. Through it all, i came to understand, the only thing that mattered was the money. Sure, they need the votes, but first and foremost was how much money can you bring me. Getting elected/winning is all about the green and it ain’t the AOC kind. Which is why i resent the RCSC’s step into the political arena. I won’t say it hasn’t happened in our past, but certainly not often. We, for the most part have stayed above politics and focused on the community. The occasional misstep has been bad enough; think back to the RCSC board and management and the SCHOA staff and board allowing their names and titles appearing on Debbie Lesko’s site and supporting her. Oops. For me, i thrived here because all politics was local, and i mean in Sun City. Sure, it exists outside the walls, but better left out there. Call me cynical, but the process of self-governance is way better than representational governance where we elect people who then pay homage to those who throw them the most money. In another thread i mentioned the ACC and APS donating 12 million dollars to elect commissionersin 2014. It’s called dark money and neither party wants to see their big donor bases eliminated. Sure, the dems talk about it, but do they really want to see George Sonos capped at $2500? Hard money, soft money and the whole game is about who pays the most and gets the best access. My hope is, however this charade comes out, we can move forward and focus on running Sun City as best we can. The sad thruth is we have spent so much money on all things golf we are way behind the curve in comparison to other communities. Our golf PIF budgets have left us teetering on the brink. Think not? Big ticket items and almost no plans in place: 1). Grand Ave, budget 6 million...is it enough? We’ll see. 2). Performing Arts Center...is 400 seats big enough? 3). Mountainview...what is the best plan going forward? 4). Life Long Learning...where are we? 5). Lakeview Rec Center/Administrative offices? 6). The softball players want new building/turf/stands? 7). Out buildings on golf courses and maintenance barns. 8). Issues with venue for indoor volleyball and basketball. 9). Clubs wanting dedicated space. 10). The Sun Bowl and crowd control. If you get my drift, wasting time on politics when we have pressing issues is tragic. What makes it even more so is, we are wasting it when in fact we could have avoided it all by simply agreeing to T33 6 years ago. Then we could have focused on big picture Sun City and not small picture all golf/all the time.
I rarely do this, but my blood is boiling after watching 12 News tonight at 6:00. The report stated the bill banning texting while driving is stalled in the House of Representatives. Really? I hate shouting, but in this case, i am going to: HEY KEVIN; TELL YOUR DULLARD REPUBLICAN COHORTS TO GET OFF THEIR DEAD ASSES AND PASS THE BILL TO STOP THE KILLING BY DRIVERS TEXTING AND SEND IT ON TO THE SENATE. I KNOW THIS BILL ON SAVING THE RCSC IS UNFRIGGINGLY IMPORTANT, BUT AFTER THE OFFICER CLAYTON TOWNSEND LOST HIS LIFE MONTHS BACK, TRY AND GET YOUR PRIORITIES IN LINE EH? Sorry for that, But it is exactly why i stay away from politics and politicians. There is no such thing as common sense.
