Where Are We?

Let's start out with this disjoinder so those that hate me, won't have to chime in on how i personally destroyed Sun City over the past 20 years. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. Now maybe the adults in the room can have a conversation.

I had coffee twice this week at Georges, Bell Rec Center. One was with a relative newcomer to Sun City (2 years) and the other with my good friend Ben who has lived here for the past 27 years. Both were sheer and utter joy as we chatted aimlessly about life, past, present and future.

Much of the discussion was regarding where we (Sun City) is and where we are headed. The newbie is refreshingly interested while both Ben and I are cautiously optimistic. In that we (Ben and i) are both SC historians, i suspect our positivity is a reflection of how well we know and understand how difficult our past was. Nothing was easy and yet they accomplished so much to get us here.

All of which fits the narrative, where is here? I would and have argued we are in a good place. We are returning to our roots of self-governance, we've identified the problems created over the years and we are on task of fixing them and reshaping direction.

If you read the letters to the editor (once you get past the national political crap), you can see some of the discord. Further, social media sites are like the disclaimer on side-window mirrors; "objects may look bigger," and they do as you read those comments.

That's not to say those issues aren't real. However, when you hold the problems up to our historical challenges, sorry, no comparison. For example; the speed of the fans over fitness equipment compared to the 35 year battle over "incorporation," gives you a glimpse of scope.

I could list a half dozen more, but it really isn't the point of this exercise. While some lament my looking back, i've always done so far more focused on the future. I wrote it the other day, i will repeat it here: "Change is inevitable, we need to learn to manage it (better)."

Way too many like to ignore it, or worse yet, whine about it. I get it, it is our new cultural phenomena, whining has become our national pastime. Playing the victim and the poor me card is more popular than anytime in our this country's history.

Some, not all of it, is generational. We know the "greatest generation," didn't whine, they rolled up their sleeves and went to work. Every problem they faced, they resolved. Building Sun City was no different. From incorporation, to the school district fight to not having age restriction language in our documents, those living here worked through and found solutions. Then when we (the RCSC) found the amenities aging in 1998/1999, the board attacked the problem knowing they needed find a workable, sustainable resolution. PIF was born.

More importantly they never tired, in spit of the infighting, to build a sense of community. Never! No matter how ugly it got, at the end of the day, the goal was to come through those challenges with a better Sun City. It was a community built by the "we" not for the "me."

All of which takes us to the here and now. This was just the set-up, for a more in depth discussion on not just the how we got here, but more importantly how we can dig our way out? All three of us believe it is doable, the real question is, do we have the capacity or the urgency to begin to restore that sense of community?

We'll see eh? We'll see.

 

Instant gratification: It was, during my working career where this summary was the easiest and quickest defining difference between the "greatest generation" and the "boomers." It was simple to get your head around. Those coming before us grew up with radio serial programs where from week to week the story continued. Boomers watched television programs that lasted an hour or less where the problems they faced were solved in the short time period. Boomers wanted it to happen fast, the greatest generation was more patient and deliberate.

There's lots of other comparisons, but the reality is, once the internet was created and computers became our go-to source, everything changed even more. Brick and mortar stores were left to compete with online sellers. Newspapers were crushed by sound bites, clicks and likes. Magazines died the death of a thousand cuts and if they survived they relied on selling subscriptions digitally. And then it got worse (in my humble opinion); social media swallowed it all.

Tiktok, Facebook, X (formerly twitter) and a hundred others displaced trusted (or not) news sources. Online crap, derived too often by bots with little or no verification, began driving the bus. And now Artificial Intelligence (AI) will swallow all of that at some point, as human's will become even less significant in generating the content needed. Changes are coming and we will be too will be swallowed or marginalized by it. Sorry for the downer, but it's why we need to start to look forward and inward.

Starting from the premise; change is inevitable, we need learn to manage it, gives us at least a glimmer of hope. I'm one of those who still believes, people matter. We will always be the defining difference from AI. Our need for human attachment, a sense of belonging and a belief we can find all of those pieces to the puzzle within the community we live in are why i see a future with growth, an explosion of sorts with Sun City's white walls.

In 1960, DEVCO took us all to a place where no one knew or understood they would want? Literally, the experts told us it wouldn't work. They were wrong as seniors flocked to a "new active way of life." They visited and they quickly bought into the concept that offered them a way of life different from where they came. Ownership, responsibility and accountability were all components, but those were the values ingrained in the community. The other side was the human relationships that came along with joining clubs, organizations and playing dozens of differing activities (sporting and otherwise) that were fun and consumed them and the leisure time they suddenly had.

It's fascinating to me as we fast forward to 2024, how the similarities exist. My news feeds are filled with articles about seniors working till they drop dead (is it by choice or by need?), or the occasional article of those who retire before 40 because they've saved a boatload of money by being frugal. We know society has changed the dynamic with 401K's rather than defined benefit plans. We know for many, retirement has less attraction, especially if they love what they do for a living. We know more people can and do work from home than any time in our history.

All of the above add to the equation; none define or determine our outcome. We are the ones who can and should determine the ultimate direction of course. It's why i love the fact the RCSC is returning to a more dedicated self-governing model of governance. Where the membership's voice matters. Where those elected and hired are involved and engaged in collecting both feedback and data. Where what they find is shared openly.

The bigger, real questions are a bit more complicated: How will we handle it? Are we prepared to understand not everyone living in Sun City agrees with me? Best of all, can we grasp the concept of a sense of community, or will we be fixated on what i want individually? We know as a society we have become more demanding of personal self-interests than of the collective good. Will that hurt us?

Anyone who has followed my writings has heard me mention the fact i have been sober for 48 years (this May as a matter of fact). While i walked out of treatment after 28 days (3 days short of graduating), the same day i left, i found an Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) meeting. The big book helped me understand the value of a careful self-examination of where i was and more importantly where i was going. Rigorous honesty was essential, if i was going to make it ( if memory serves me, around 30% stayed sober).

Sorry to bore you with personal stories, but after the two lengthy discussions this week over coffee, i've come to believe we too need an intervention of sorts. As a community we need to begin to peel back the skin of the onion and start an open and honest dialogue about where we are headed and more importantly how we get there. Too few people know or understand how we got here. These days way too many simply look at what they want and see that as the most important issue on our plate.

Look, it's not up to me to tell anyone whether something is better than what someone else thinks is more important. I'm not that smart or wise. I am smart enough to know that when we refuse to engage one another about what we can afford and where we need to go as a community, we are far better off than just letting each person or group think they are getting screwed if they don't get what they want.

We know as a society we have withdrawn from face to face human interaction. We know sitting behind a computer screen is far easier than sitting down with real people and talking out our differences. We also know, historically, no matter how bad things were, those living here had the capacity to sort out the issues and find solutions. Learning from history still matters.

 

I fear where we are going because I see more and more homes being flipped and turned into either rentals or some sort of assisted living or halfway house!

Just look at where we're headed. There are contractors out there making a living on flipping Sun City homes.

I think we need to get a grip on how the younger "me first" generation is changing the community involvement to one's self gratification and the rest of you be damned.

I fear that 20 years from now you will not recognize Sun City as the community your parents created.

 

You are 100% correct, but 20 years from now I will probably be dead so I don't care very much. Had a contractor contact me re my home to flip. There are a handful of people on this site involved with RCSC and you all have the same mindset, not to mention name calling skills and judging people without even meeting them. God forbid you elect people with new ideas, the younger residents who just might care more than the old ones because they will live here longer, however you label them as self gratification people. Maybe you don't want them because they might be smarter, quicker and better? This place is light years behind SCW in technology. Complain about member turnout at meetings but did you know a resident in SCW can actually attend a meeting of the board virtually? Hello 2024. I was looking for something Mr. McClain said on here and ran into a very interesting reference to someone by Geoffrey that had many ways to be interpreted. Also ran into this quote from Mr. Pearson.
"What really set me off was how blunt and uncaring they were about the impact on the community at large. Communicating in a manner that suggests you care about people isn’t that difficult, especially if you understand what your decisions are doing to people. In addition, imagine if the RCSC had spent the last year building a sense of community even though we couldn’t get together in person?"
Someone does not practice what they preach!
Peace Out! ☮️

 

Separate out the flippers from the assisted living homes Tom. Most flippers buy them with the intent to sell them and frankly generate double revenue for the RCSC. The flipper pays the related fees as a non-owner and when they turn it around, the new buyer pays them again. Oddly, it's more a generational thing with the greatest generation doing their own remodeling with more boomers hiring contractors or buying the flipped property.

The house next door to me, a three bedroom Stanford sold a few months back, they've been working hard on the remodel and should go back up in the next week or two. They've done a nice job on the outside and i'm told the inside is really nice as well. Nothing wrong with that other than the original sale could have been made to a buyer who could have gotten in for the sale price ($320K) and then done the work at their leisure or if they even wanted to.

The RCSC comes away with two PIF's and two CIF's as the flipper isn't entitled to a refund. Don't even get me started on group homes.

 

Guy that approached me was a group home guy. Already has 2 here, a couple in Surprise. Problem with 'flip' homes is usually the flipper uses cheaper junk material than an actual owner would use. Maybe it will be and Air BnB?

 

You may be surprised to learn that some flippers have learned how to game the system. They not only get too claim the dollars they spent on renovation to the IRS as a rental, they have found ways to reclaim their PIF fees.

 

[QUOTE="BPearson, post: 30674,

Sorry to bore you with personal stories, but after the two lengthy discussions this week over coffee, i've come to believe we too need an intervention of sorts. As a community we need to begin to peel back the skin of the onion and start an open and honest dialogue about where we are headed and more importantly how we get there. Too few people know or understand how we got here. These days way too many simply look at what they want and see that as the most important issue on our plate.

Look, it's not up to me to tell anyone whether something is better than what someone else thinks is more important. I'm not that smart or wise. I am smart enough to know that when we refuse to engage one another about what we can afford and where we need to go as a community, we are far better off than just letting each person or group think they are getting screwed if they don't get what they want.

We know as a society we have withdrawn from face to face human interaction. We know sitting behind a computer screen is far easier than sitting down with real people and talking out our differences. We also know, historically, no matter how bad things were, those living here had the capacity to sort out the issues and find solutions. Learning from history still matters.[/QUOTE]

I agree, Bill. And I think an intervention is needed by a professional third party. Someone objective, similar to our ASU facilitator, to help get things in perspective. Especially after the 5 year plan is presented - it is comprehensive and forward thinking, and actually looks beyond five years because it also includes PIF.

I think we have some big decisions ahead of us as we move through this decade. We have a finite amount of resources and unless we are willing to seek other revenue sources we have to ask ourselves what do we NEED to continue to make this community attractive and vibrant versus what do we want? And the NextGen population is critical to our discussion, with a caveat - keeping in mind things are a lot different between age 55 and 75. (At least it was for me.)

I mention resources when thinking about facilities. I've mentioned to several board members and management that the planning for LV should start in 2025. It will take time to figure out wants and needs, where everything goes during a remodel or rebuild. This site is prime real estate so my question is - what is the very best use? We need to ask hard questions, be honest and keep emotions at bay as we plan. Keeping in mind, the numbers will be large by the time LV becomes a reality.

I agree it's easy to be a keyboard warrior. We need some informal roundtable meetings so members can just discuss ideas about how we might positively move forward. We're making progress in some areas, but in other ways we just keep doing the same things and expect different results. It's time to start thinking (and doing) differently for the times we are trying to navigate. Not a committee - just a grassroots group to brainstorm and see where it leads.

 

What creates a sense of community?
Residents bonded by attitudes, values, and goals, “belonging” through social connections.
Active engaged community members:
• have opportunities to influence
• are valued
• needs are fulfilled
• have emotional connections

The RCSC’s contribution to our sense of community, while important and necessary, often only connects with our residents to collect their annual assessment and when deciding to increase it!

RCSC Board of Directors and Management is responsible for our recreation centers and amenities, “in our best interest.”

Members do develop connections participating in RCSC clubs and activities.

Not many choose to be involved in its board, Exchange, and Annual Membership meetings or committees.

In contrast, community connections with direct neighbors, nearby family, church and other non-RCSC organizations and activities are greater components of Sun City resident existing satisfaction.

“We ❤️ Sun City,” is heard all the time!

With efforts by the revived RCSC Outreach and Communications committee, we may hear it even more often!

 

And you got this information from???? ☮️

I thought so. Pulled up the ASU survey and performed a search on phrases. All were from the survey. Generally speaking pulling the "good" points out of something to suit your needs leads to a false sense of security, and if I'm not mistaken hasn't transparency been a big issue? So this is 'where we are'. ‍

 

Bill, FYI and Linda,

No need to look at ASU Survey for my comment on Bill’s topic, “Where Are We?” thread.

Creating and growing community is very similar to managing nonprofit volunteers.

I have experience developing, engaging and maintaining effective volunteer support to generate the posted reply.

 

I've often written "Sun City is the sum total of its parts" eyesopen. From the very beginning it was the cumulative impact of everything being built, opened and created working in concert with one another. It still is, other than we fail to connect those dots. Doing so would take some work, a committed effort to weave everything into a well functioning community that exists to satisfy each others needs.

DEVCO/Meeker et al were masters of marketing/branding and creating that seamless stream of consciousness. They knew and understood one day they would walkaway and once they did, a community without a dedicated infrastructure would be challenged to survive, to stand alone. It's why so many of them running organizations saw incorporation as our solution. It was the norm in the country, with a city government running everything.

The members weren't buying it. They loved the ownership and the responsibility of being held accountable for our success. Ben mused over coffee the other day, "what do you think the outcome would be if incorporation were put to a vote?" Ouch! I shudder thinking about the very thought of us agreeing to just pay for everything that gets done when we are part of a city; with all the trappings of the politics (and related costs) coming with it.

Even though we have replaced the logo on the electronic marques at the centers to read "City of Volunteers," we know from the extensive 80's survey done by SCHOA, only 42% of the population volunteered. I suspect that percentage has dropped markedly. Change is inevitable. The breakdown has been in our inability to manage that change. Tragically we elected to ignore it and pretend everything was just fine. Dare i say, shortsighted?

That's hindsight, and this exercise is about looking forward. Both Linda and EO is correct in what need happen. I use the term "intervention" which is way too hyperbolic. We know from the poorly written survey, the focus groups and ultimately the working group, there was enormous interest. We also know, to date, not much has been done with that effort. It's easy to explain why in that the priorities have been to focus on the here and now, not the future. There's been a lot of fires to put out.

It's a bit unfair to look at what DEVCO did, but to fail to do so would ignore the reasons a community that was supposed to be a bust, exploded into a whole new subset of residential construction. When the Museum adopted the slogan, "The Community That Changed The Nation," we were foretelling our path forward. We were the first, the most unique community of our kind. We have stood the test of time, and in spite of the odds are still one of the places attractive to seniors looking for their place in the sun.

In the 60's, we had no competition. By the 70's options were coming into existence and today, age restricted communities are everywhere. We are still the most unique and we need to not only understand that, but make it our mantra. It can and should be our catalyst for change. Our evolution should be tied to our unrivaled amenities, clubs and volunteer opportunities.

"The sum total of our parts."

If i were to be critical of the RCSC and the changes to date since the new GM came in, it would be in how cold we appear to be. DEVCO employees and the cast of characters the staff called their greatest asset (the members), exuded warmth. They (DEVCO) had the luxury of a massive budget, simply because home sales exploded and for-profit companies have a built in advantage over non-profits. They also are better at identifying their strengths and weaknesses.

I wrote in another thread of DEVCO having not just a PR person, but also an assistant to him. Plus, Ben pointed out to me, they had an individual who worked almost individually in the community building relationships with and between members, clubs and organizations. On top of that, they had a key man whose primary job was greeting every new owner at their front door doing a walk-through to insure their house was in order and without problems.

The point is, the community had a lot of "faces" working tirelessly to insure Sun City was seen as the smartest, best choice the buyer ever made. Best of all, it didn't end once the keys were handed over, in fact, that was just the beginning of the relationship that brought home owners into the mix. Everything that happened in the community became community news. Every event was another opportunity for shameless self-promotion.

Yesterday i stopped by the POM's 45th anniversary celebration at Sundial. At the same time, i walked into the Palo Verde Artists' Show and Sale. Both were fascinating. Both could have been far better attended. Both could have been integral parts of marketing the "new active way of life." Both were just seen as another day in the life of Sun City residents enjoying their retirement.

My sense is we are at a tipping point where we weigh our options and opportunities more openly. I dislike the phrase "think tanks," but the idea we begin actively engaging with members regarding our path forward makes total sense to me. Questions regarding how to make the community/management/board appear more user-friendly (warm), would be at or near the top of the list. Could we do it with an ombudsman (another term i don't care for), a community liaison or simply a really talented public relations spokesperson?

Should we be doing a better job marketing Sun City? Did you know coming out of the housing crash in 2010, the RCSC dedicated $100,000 (i think) towards marketing (which was a great decision). For more than 10 years, Sun City home sales were in the 2000 per year range. While some questioned "why?" the smart money understood those home sales generated PIF dollars to fund new projects. Even with increases, home sales spiked.

It's a fascinating problem that we (members, board and management) all too often fail to engage in. It truly is beyond time for a community "intervention" to start carving our path forward.

 

No surprise there EO. If i told you there are/were hundreds maybe thousands of members who can bring something to the dance based on their learned skills over their lifetime would you be surprised? I doubt you would. My good friend Ben taught me early on (2006) the key to finding them was to ask for help. Duh.

Coffee the other day with the two-year resident was eye-opening. His background would be a perfect fit for what we do here. Literally perfect. However, he's a 3 to 4 month resident, so he's a castoff; at least under current rules. It immediately made me wonder, how many of those are out there? Too many is most likely the answer. I also watch as soon as somebody mentions expanding roles for "snowbirds," people get excited.

It's time to reconsider becoming more inclusive.

 

Wow, just wow! I pretty much said the same darn thing referencing Janet Curry's extensive background would be perfect as a board member and was chastised for it. Your narcissism never fails to amaze. I sincerely believe you periodically post that you are going to leave the fore front of SC discussion groups and give the floor to new members for the few that will moan and groan "no, please don't go". Remember "His Story"? If what is happening wasn't so sad it would be comical. ☮️

 

“It still is, other than we fail to connect those dots. Doing so would take some work, a committed effort to weave everything into a well functioning community that exists to satisfy each others needs.
…It truly is beyond time for a community "intervention" to start carving our path forward.”BP

This Forum is a start! Let the discussion continue.
“Anyone? Anyone?” Ferris Bueller's Day Off'

“If i told you there are/were hundreds maybe thousands of members who can bring something to the dance based on their learned skills over their lifetime would you be surprised? I doubt you would.” BP

The expertise of members who speak at RCSC Exchange, Board and Annual Member meetings is impressive! We should acknowledge their interest and value by creating a variety of points of entry to welcome and expand their contributions. Not just existing long term commitments.

“ I also watch as soon as somebody mentions expanding roles for "snowbirds," people get excited.” BP
Inclusive solutions are in the whispering stage.

“It's time to reconsider becoming more.” BP
Encouraged dots …are being identified with efforts to connect!

 

Perhaps the RCSC should hold Coffee Klatches? Seems that my financial advisor does it, the Posse and Sheriffs do it! All's it would cost would be a pot of coffee!

Even if they only set-up a coffee pot in the breezeway at Sundial once or twice a month? No agenda needed, just a BS session to kick ideas around and talk about the things that could or should be!

 

Walt Disney had the right idea. Every time you entered you felt like it was Opening Day with fresh clean streets lined with flowers and no worn down amenities!

Wouldn't it be nice. Sun City...not just a place to live but a destination!

 

We are halfway there! The Face People (board/committee members) get to talk, and the Fur People (residents/owners) don't. ☮️

 

During a recent discussion with several friends about how "snowbirds" can be engaged and not just be cast-offs or fee generators, it's time to expand the Board by at least two members. These positions would be for snowbirds that are property owners, residing here at least 6 months. Further, make a change to the by-laws (or policies) so only the Committee Chair is required to be a Board member and a member in good standing can be co-chair, with a requirement they have expertise in the field of interest. That way the responsibilities of the Board can be shared AND we involve more members. Plus, having snowbirds on the board provides a voice for a large segment of the community. Too often there is an attitude that anyone not living here full time just doesn't care or participate. However, how many times do we hear SBs speak at the Exchanges or a Board meetings? I know people that are full time residents that have never participated in anything nor have they ever voted, but many snowbirds are very active during the time they are here and stay in touch while away. SBs are vested, it's times that's recognized and time for a change.

 

Linda,

“ ‘I also watch as soon as somebody mentions expanding roles for "snowbirds," people get excited. BP’
‘Inclusive solutions are in the whispering stage.’EO”

Thanks for sharing, whispering no longer needed!