The bastards did it!

Discussion in 'Sun City General Discussions' started by FYI, Jun 27, 2021.

  1. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Cool eh? We are trying to avoid "disharmony and divisiveness." But wait, there's more and way, way uglier:
    SECTION 1: STEPS TO TAKE BEFORE CIRCULATING A PETITION
    1. Consider alternatives before beginning the petition process:
      1. Bring the issue to the attention of the Board at Board meetings or in other direct communication with the Board.
      2. The Board will consider the issue and provide in writing their consensus regarding such. If the Board approves, action will be taken accordingly. If the Board disapproves, proponents may initiate the petition process.
    2. File request to circulate your petition with the Secretary of the Corporation.
      1. Submit:
        1. The names, addresses, and telephone numbers of the petition organizers.
        2. The organization, if any, supporting the petition.
        3. The text of the proposed petition on the official petition form as required.
      2. Receive from the Secretary of the Corporation:
        1. Written notice of approval or disapproval of petition as submitted.
        2. If approved, official petition with control number for use by all Circulators.
        3. If approved, petition regulations.
        4. If approved, your petition start and completion dates.
    3. Copy official, numbered petitions.
      1. Copy as many copies of the official, numbered petition, as needed to circulate your petition. No other petition form is acceptable. Number each page. Each page should have:
        1. The exact wording of the petition as approved by the Board.
        2. The control number as assigned by the Corporation.
        3. The Certification on the back of each page.
    4. Select and orient Circulators to the regulations and procedures to follow in circulating petitions.
    SECTION 2: ACCEPTABLE PRACTICES DURING THE PETITION’S CIRCULATION
    1. All Circulators:
      1. Must be Members in good standing.
      2. May not use intimidation, misleading statements or payments in securing signatures.
      3. Obtain signatures of current Members only. Privilege Cardholders are not eligible to vote or sign a petition.
      4. Must certify, as their legal obligation requires, that he/she witnessed the signatures of each individual signing.
    2. Petitions will not be:
      1. Circulated within or at RCSC
    3. Signers of the petition, in addition to being current Members, must:
      1. Be the actual person, a wife may not sign for husband or vice versa.
      2. Legibly sign in ink. A printed “signature” is not acceptable, unless that is the usual way the person signs.
      3. Indicate date on which they signed; otherwise signature is voided.
      4. Write legibly their Property address, Member Card number and expiration date thereof.
      5. Legibly print their name below their signature.
    4. Signers of the petition may withdraw their signatures at any time during the validation process.
    SECTION 3: POST-PETITION CIRCULATION PROCEDURES
    When petition circulation is complete:

      1. File completed petitions with the Secretary of the Corporation in book form, including:
        1. A cover page specifying the quantity of individual official petition forms filed, the total number of signatures claimed, and the date submitted.
        2. Number each signed official petition submitted.
        3. A cover page to verify each group of petitions submitted and certified by each Circulator.
      2. The Corporation will:
        1. Provide a dated receipt for submitted petitions.
        2. Initiate the petition verification process.
      3. The petition verification process will include, but is not limited to, the following:
        1. Investigation of Circulators:
          1. Circulator must be a current Member in good standing.
          2. Circulator must witness every signature.
          3. Circulator must sign the affidavit of Circulator on the reverse side of the last official petition form submitted in a group.
          4. Irregularities, including false or misleading statements by the Circulator, in obtaining, verifying and certifying signatures will result in rejection of all petitions of the Circulator.
        2. Inspection of signatures for:
          1. Legibility
          2. Printing instead of signing.
          3. Absence of dated signature, Property address, and Member Card number.
          4. Duplication
    D. Time required for petition verification:

    1. Once the completed petition is filed with the Corporation, the Corporation will have thirty (30) days from the filing to determine and announce whether or not the required number of signers has been obtained.

    E. Upon completion of the verification process:

    1. If the number of verified signers is insufficient, the petition is declared invalid.
    2. If the number of verified signers is sufficient, the Board will set the date to present the petition to the Members for their vote which will be conducted by the Election Committee within sixty (60) days of the validation announcement.
     
  2. IndependentCynic

    IndependentCynic Active Member

    "Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

    “If the people knew what sort of men statesmen were, they would rise and hang the whole lot of them.”

    ...Lord Acton, 1887
     
  3. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    If you actually took the time to read this crap, you are sicker than me. I'm not an attorney, but i wrote contract language for a living. I had a simple rule of thumb, clear, concise and unambiguous. Just say what you mean so readers can understand it. Let me reduce what they wrote to layman's terms: You can try and recall a board member or draft an initiative/referendum but we made it so freaking difficult you won't even try. If you are crazy enough to try, we can still tell you to pound salt.

    On the other side of ledger, they gathered for who knows how many scant minutes and threw a board member off with nary a whisper from the community. Oh wait, they didn't bother to tell us, you know, executive session and all. What an absolute pile of steamy horseshit.
     
  4. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Hate to be Captain Obvious here but just yesterday i wrote there were a touch over 600 reads on this thread. 24 hours later, there's an additional 300 plus. It would appear people are not only following but apparently sharing these comments with one another. My guess is it would be pickleball players, but who knows for sure? The simply truth is most often the RCSC does what it does and no one pays any attention. This may well be the straw that breaks the camels back. And while Karen just plain got screwed, the bigger issue still lingers and won't go away...what happens to those sporting clubs when it is all shut down and they are left standing with paddle and bowls in hand?
     
  5. Poison_Ivy

    Poison_Ivy Member

    Mr. Pearson - question: is it a requirement for RCSC Board members to be Sun City property owners? just curious if all members of the board own property here.
     
  6. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Yes. Just as an example, one of the board members a couple of years ago sold her home and moved into Royal Oak. Because they can only be privilege card holders she had to resign.
     
  7. SCR

    SCR Active Member

    Can anyone elaborate on when, where, and by whom the F-bomb was hurled?
     
  8. FYI

    FYI Well-Known Member

    From what I've heard, the director who threw the F-bomb at director McAdam was never even disciplined!?!?!?

    So I guess it's alright to throw F-bomb tantrums at other directors but you can't simply, and politely, express a difference of opinion?

    The current board (director McAdam excluded) appears to be nothing more than a bunch of petulant children, and THESE are people we're entrusting to run our corporation?
     
  9. FYI

    FYI Well-Known Member

    Is it just me or have others seen a change in director Steve Collins? Anybody who regularly attends the board meetings or watches them on YouTube should remember that early on and often times he was the only one who would second a motion made by Karen and similarly, he would often vote in the same manner, which of course was just the opposite of the other board members.

    I'm wondering why did Collins vote to terminate her and if he's been threatened to be the next one in the cross-hairs? I think he may also be on thin ice?

    I've got my suspicions as to who dropped the F-bomb but I will refrain from making any accusations!
     
  10. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Rumor has it that other board members were present. Time will tell eh. As far as Collins...did he vote to oust her?
     
  11. FYI

    FYI Well-Known Member

    Well, you figure it out! The vote was 7-0. Karen learned about the meeting too late and wasn't there and I suspect director Atkins was also missing because she wasn't at the Thursday board meeting, so I suspect she was out of town.
     
  12. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Again FYI, you know way more than me. I would be really disappointed if Collins voted to oust her. He pretty much voted with her all the way.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2021
  13. SCR

    SCR Active Member

    Here are my thoughts and opinions on the dismissal of Karen.


    Karen has been removed from the board based upon validation from Rusty Bradshaw at this link.

    https://www.yourvalley.net/stories/mcadam-gets-boot-from-rcsc-board-in-sun-city,244047

    There has been no communication from the board regarding her dismissal.

    There has been no verification of Gene being appointed to replace Karen.

    From the June 24th board meeting video it is clear to me that the board had already made their decision to terminate Karen. Their decision was not made in a vacuum. There were more than likely electronic meetings amongst the other board members to discuss Karen’s dismissal. Most probably instigated by one or two board members. Secret meetings by the board are not permitted nor acceptable.

    The board conceived, planned, and executed Karen’s dismissal before the June 24th board meeting and purposely did not act on their plan till the board quit for the summer. More than likely the GM was involved in her dismissal. If you watch the video of the 24th you will see her uninvolved and filing her nails during the debate. Rich Hoffer had absolutely no interest in listening to anything Karen had to say and shook his head repeatedly.

    The board is hoping that this will all be forgotten by September.

    Suggestions in this thread that members show up in mass for the next members meeting will never happen. Will there ever be a member quorum? Not unless people decide to get involved and show up at board meetings in meaningful numbers of 1250 or more. If 1251 members were to show up at a board meeting or a members meeting, where would they put them all?

    Based upon the number of reads in this thread there are a lot of people interested in Karen’s dismissal, but not enough interested to create an account and voice their thoughts and opinions. Why are those reading so afraid to sign in and express themselves. This as an ANONYMOUS forum, meaning you don’t have to give your real name. You can use any moniker you’d like. Anonymous means no one will know your true identity unless you provide it. Board members and the GM are watching this forum. Board members are probably communicating electronically mounting their defense for their dismissal of Karen.

    If you attended the board meetings or watched the videos prior to June you would see that maybe 20 people show up for each of those meetings and most for their own agenda. June’s meetings were all about Mountainview and pickleball. That is the most members that have shown up in years.

    Karen challenged the board and unfortunately for her and RCSC MEMBERS she and members lost. 7 against 1 was the tally (Darla Akins) not present. Forewarning to future board applicants. Do not challenge the board.

    In the last 2 board meetings there has been little to no movement on the following items;

    ADWR, The leaking lake (been leaking for years), Sun City Security, Upgrades to WIFI, Technology upgrades to the 21st century, Softball building improvements.

    The last part of the board meeting was solely about how the RCSC accounts for facility usage. I was rather stunned to learn that when people use a facility they sign in using paper and pencil (or someone does it for them) and then the clip Board is given to someone to enter into a database. Also the RCSC computes an average time for everyone’s use of said facility. We are in the 21st century where electronic recorders are everywhere. When someone uses a facility they should be able to insert a card or use their phone to sign into the facility. They should also be required to sign out the exact same way so that accurate time using the facility is accounted for.

    The count of those reading this thread is growing daily. What exactly is everyone’s reason for reading this thread? Will the number of readers translate into number of people at the next board meeting?
     
  14. FYI

    FYI Well-Known Member

    Is it possible to cut and paste the article in this blog so everybody can read it?

    The Independent website won't allow me to view the link you provided!?!?
     
  15. SCR

    SCR Active Member

    I had the same issue as you. I won’t pay them to read articles online.
    Just the headline verifies that Karen was removed.
     
  16. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    There are a slew of new readers to TOSC since this happened. So you know, this site has been here for years. There’s 1000’s of threads that cover the gamut regarding Sun City. Some are really positive, some less so. This topic has garnered a lot of interest, most likely because of the position Karen took regarding pickleball.

    SCR, don’t know who you are, don’t care; I also don’t know where you are getting your information and i don’t care about that either. With that out of the way, a couple of things for clarification: Rumor has it that Karen was not at the meeting when she was fired. If that’s the case, and if Darla wasn’t there either, then there would have only been 7 votes cast in total. The other item deserves its own paragraph.

    “ Secret meetings and electronic meetings” meetings are NOT illegal. A couple of years back a lawsuit was brought against the RCSC to have them fall under Title 33. The RCSC maintained they were covered by Title 10 of the AZ Statutes which allows them to have whatever types of meetings they chose. Under 33 they would have had to do everything in the open. It was during the suit the RCS proudly claimed they were going to have nothing but open meetings (except executive sessions). BTW, they won the suit.

    Like most of the stuff of late, it was just more bullshit. For years, typically the officers would work in concert with the GM. This is just the latest. Hell, this year they shoved the newbies off to the side as the more “experienced” among them forged decisions. And then they have the gall to sit on the stage and ask “why don’t you all trust us?”

    Duh, because your capacity for honesty is obvious every step of the way. I have long argued, this is our community, not the GM’s, not the boards…but all of ours. Karen was doomed from the day she took office. She had read the Articles of Incorporation and before she was even elected pointed out to them the sole purpose of the RCSC was for the membership of the organization. Sadly, the bulk of them believed the gm’s pitch the organization was there to serve the organization.

    I have no idea where this whole mess is going, but you are wrong SCR. This firing won’t be a dead issue come September. While the termination of a board member for doing her job is a big deal, the reality is those sporting clubs kicked to the curb by the board’s actions at Mountainview will be back in full force come September and howling at the moon.
     
  17. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Just got my weekly Independent Newspaper in my driveway. as i scanned the front page, above the fold was this headline:
    McAdam gets boot from board
    Action taken in closed door meeting

    All of which left Darla Atkins question reverberating in the back of my cranial cavity: "Why don't you all trust us?"

    Let me count the ways gang...let me count the ways.

    Someone should be reaching out to Barbara Brehm...two board members fired in two years...has to be a worlds record eh?
     
  18. FYI

    FYI Well-Known Member

    And if nobody holds the boards feet to the fire this will continue to happen!
     
  19. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    I'm sure they figured, much like when they got rid of Barbara, this one would just go away as well. Stupid, simply stupid. I am told Barbara moved to be closer to family in Florida when this happened. I truly wish i had a recording of her conversation with me at the last Museum board meeting. She stunned me with her comments and what concerned me most was how much experience she had brought to the board of director position; when i read her qualifications, she seemed better suited to have been running for the general managers job.

    The real insanity of the move to boot McAdams was in that as a board member she was/had one vote. I know the feeling as Carole Martinez and i were often left lodging our objections to actions taken, and then simply being out voted. It's how boards work, or are supposed to work. The majority (and sadly over the years it's just been the good old boys club), has always voted and done whatever they have wanted to do. Working in concert and with trade-offs with the general manager, they always got what THEY wanted. It would have been the same if they had just left Karen stay and lodge her complaints. Hell, now she can take the mic in September as a member and really lay it all out there. What are they going to do? Suspend her for having an opinion? Oh wait, that's why they kicked her off the board.

    And, lets be clear. The comments Director Hoffer made regarding having quit golf are freaking laughable. How many times did he vote on golf course improvements while still playing the game???? In fact, the majority of the boards decisions over the past 15 years regarding golf have been made by board members who golfed a lot. Really? How could they possibly do their job as a board member while at the same time they were golfing four and five days a week? Don't seem to recall a single time someone accused them of being incapable of being a board member because they walked around with a putter in their hands half their lives.

    Finally, at the beginning of this year Rusty Bradshaw from the Independent newspaper called and asked me what i thought about the board for the first time in our history having a majority of women seated? I told him i thought it was awesome...boy was i freaking wrong.
     
  20. Say What

    Say What Active Member

    The big bag of f...ing air is the ring leader and everyone in SC needs to stop him from ever being involved in SC affairs. Now, Ek is retiring so it could be very possible that she could run for the board at some point and keep full control of her agenda she has been using for many years.
     

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