The bastards did it!

To answer your question SCR, i would never say they didn't look at by-law changes, they neither wrote them nor initiated them. While i was on the board they came from the gm and always had the officers stamp of approval. As far as these days, i have no idea who or what is driving the stupidity.

Let me be clear, the decision to move away from a member governed community to one where the gm and board made all of the decisions wasn't an accident. It was cold, calculated and allowed them to shape the community the way they wanted it. Golf for some reason took a front seat. We all knew the game was on the down hill run, but never once did anyone other than Carole and I ask them to slow their roll. You see how well that worked out. Put a majority of golfers on the board and there should be no surprise where the action goes. The gm was locked and loaded on it from the beginning. Honestly, i still can't explain it. It made no sense.

Now as the gm is leaving, we appear to have lost our minds and are just going full tilt. Stop and ask yourself if what the president said is true about Karen and if we only "knew the full story" we'd feel differently. Really? What in the world could she have done that was so bad she deserved to be fired? I cannot picture anything that warranted her being fired that she shouldn't have at the same time been arrested for; literally There's just nothing all that significant a board member does or is asked to do? Sorry, madam president, it just doesn't wash.

Now we find ourselves lathering up and the board hunkering down. How does that make any sense for the good of the community. No, i don't want to lawyer up, that just means we are suing ourselves. Kicking them out of office is impossible with the structure they've written. Should we have an October membership meeting, there is a very real possibility of achieving a quorum (1250), especially if we gather proxy votes. They know that and hence you see the pandemic proposal. Dare i say chickenshit?

Today's agenda was in your face ugly. Swear in the new retread (is that an oxymoron?), get rid of Roberts rules of order (that's what "may" does) and 4 million more in to a golf equipment storage barn/shed/building is borderline insanity. They'll be more so hold on, it just won't need motions to do it. This will just get worse and worse as we get closer.

 

It is but only IF that's where all the money is going!!! Could some be going to subsidize golf (or peoples pockets) Oops! Did I say that out loud? No!

I don't think it cost much more than that to build the Vintage Vehicle Building at Grand Center and that's awesome! Just how much could a prefabricated steel structure cost? Anything more than that for a maintenance building is simply overkill, but what do I know? I'm just a Cardholder!!

 

. Really? What in the world could she have done that was so bad she deserved to be fired?

She disagreed with BlowHOF. I was sitting at the counter having breakfast at George's Lakeview last week when BlowHOF and another gentleman walked in and sat just about 6 feet from me. This was the first time that you couldn't hear his loud mouth ranting and raving. He was very subdued and quiet. As I was paying Bill Cook walked in. Whether or not he joined them I couldn't tell you as I had to leave for my hearing test.

 

So you know FYI, the RCSC has an aversion to metal pre-fab buildings. We've asked that many a time and many a time the answer was hell no. I suspect it yet again at the Lakes East/Lakes West maintenance shed will be hell no. The funny thing is, the building is buried behind walls and cannot even be seen. And of course prefabricated buildings have become quite attractive, if that is even the issue. By the way, have you seen the final cost on the new building at the Grand Ave center? Better yet, the total cost for the entire project?

In response to SW, i try and try to keep it from being personal. Though after what they did to Karen and Barbara, it's hard to try and be objective. The very idea board members asking questions about issues board members should be concerned about is quite simply impossible to get my head around. The real problem is the board has been trained to look at the shinny things the gm puts in front of them, rather than at the bigger issues she tends to bury.

As we are approaching 14,000 reads, it is abundantly clear this is picking up steam. It is the perfect point to remind people who plan on attending, civility is critical to being successful. I can fairly well predict the president will shut down the meeting if she feels too much heat. She can do that, but anyone with an ounce of common sense understands it will only make it worse for them.

 

Damn, as i was writing this and posting above, we blew by and now are at 14,017 reads. Freaking astounding.

 

It will be very interesting to see how many chairs are put out for people attending the board meeting on the 13th.

If it's less than a 1000, their intent is to send a message "we don't want to hear from you".
If it's more than 1000, then I'm sure they will abruptly end the meeting citing lack of time.
The board has no interest in listening to the members.
The board has no interest in working to support the members.
The board has no interest in spending much more than an hour at board meetings.

No matter the number, if they are prepared for member attendees for the board meeting, there is no reason to cancel the Membership meeting.
For one, the majority of senior citizens have received their vaccine. Two, the majority of new Covid cases are amongst the unvaccinated.
Three, most new cases are in the age group of 20 to 45.

I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think we have any homeowners aged 20 to 45.

The board is making rules as they go at this point.

Everyone keeps alluding to the membership meeting in October. Why do members have to wait for that meeting to bring up ANY gripes they have?
Can they not either sign up to speak at the board meeting and/or wait till they open the floor for all those who want to speak at the board meeting.

If the board sees thousands of people at the board meeting, they most likely will limit speakers to 1 minute and shut the meeting down early.

The number of attendees of members at the board meeting will be a good barometer of how many people really care about what is going on.

Bill, I know you don't like hearing people saying that they may have to sue the RCSC. I think you have to get over it and move into the 21st century where
people sue over the dumbest things. Bringing action against a rogue board is not frivolous if you really want Sun City to return to its roots.
If nothing is done, things will continue to deteriorate.

As for the incoming GM. Don't hold your breath on any changes there. Things will continue on the path they have been on.
The GM RULES. the GM makes changes to the bylaws and other RCSC documents and that is going to continue.

I hate to be negative, but history has shown that without massive membership input to the board, NOTHING is ever going to change.

 

The one thing that has pissed me off over the last couple of years is how we have been labeled as cardholders and no longer referred to as members. BlowHOF and EK consistently changed this and the purple man (we cannot forget this ass kisser) and the rest of the clowns followed. I cannot recall if this started before Jerry or after to the extent it has become.

 

It started years before that SW. The gm has been moving the peanut up the hill for years, a little bit at a time. Boards along the way have simply bought in because, well, they were paying her a lot of money and she had all the credentials, and that meant she obviously knew what she was doing. Sadly, boards forgot her job was to run the day to day operations. The boards job was twofold, oversight and direction. Over time, they did neither. When the payoff came on the solar lease and it was supposed to be 4.2 million, it suddenly became 5.2 million dollars. Nothing was done or said about the million dollar error and now i am hearing rumors it may even have been more. What board wouldn't react to that kind of a blunder?

Manipulating golf figures, when the majority of the board are golfers, should be a giant red flag because as i have written a hundred times, the courses were taken under two conditions: 1). They remain golf courses and 2), They be self-sustaining. The RCSC always throws the remaining golf courses in our face and conveniently forgets the self-sustaining part. If you really want to sue the RCSC SCR, there's their soft spot. If they were forced to do a forensic audit over the past 15 years it would be fascinating to see what a round of golf should actually be costing. And to be clear, i'm not talking about the PIF expenditures on golf.

If members want to sue, i get it. It's just not my style. I watched ARS suck lots of contributions to the cause and watched the RCSC spend countless dollars dragging it out forever. It was a money pit and we know where the money comes from. I would love to see 1000 members show up next Monday, i'd be happy to see 300. Most members (not card holders) are simply in the dark about how we are run and what is going on.

The good news is, their stupidity in firing Karen has brought us to this point. And to be sure, it is the first time in a very long time it may become the tipping point for a better community. ARS wanted a pound of flesh, if our goal is a better run more functional board and a gm that actually listens and cares about the membership, then whatever it takes. Sun City is simply too awesome a place to let it be high-jacked by a handful who see it as their God-given right to run it as they please.

 

Lets see how many people show up at the board meeting and how the board decides to handle the more than 20 to 30 attendees that normally show up.

We still haven't heard WHY Karen was dismissed. I doubt that we ever will without a lawsuit to have the board open up and spell out with details why Karen was dismissed.

I know there are a lot of wanna be lawyers on here who in one way or another spout a bylaw or article of incorporation, or Arizona law that suggests the board acted without cause.
Without a certified legal counsel to corroborate any of the wanna be claims we are shooting in the dark.

Lets wait and see if the board opens up and tells us WHY they dismissed Karen. DON'T HOLD YOUR BREATH!!!!!!!!!

Has Karen ever gotten an explanation as to why she was dismissed?

Was she given due process to defend herself.

Lots of unanswered questions.

Someone mentioned a pro bono lawyer stepping up to support the members, but so far that hasn't happened.

As for golf courses,
"the courses were taken under two conditions: 1). They remain golf courses and 2), They be self-sustaining."
Where is this documented. This is at least the second time I have asked for documentation stating the above.
If it doesn't exit, then it is not true. Just saying it doesn't make it true.

I would doubt seriously that our golf courses are self sustaining. The only way to prove that will unfortunately require a lawsuit and confiscation of all records pertaining to golf courses.

I'm also quite sure that creative accounting has been used by the RCSC to hide the real figures and all records saying otherwise have been deleted.

Again, lets see how many people show up at the board meeting.

By the way, who counts heads coming in to the meeting?

 

And you probably never will. This is one of the rare moments the board is actually following Robert's Rules of Order by not disclosing what the actual charges against her were/are. The things said and done in executive session stay in executive however, they could have simply announced that Karen was no longer a member of the board and left it at that. In my opinion, we should have at least been given that courtesy and it isn't fair to Karen to allow members to approach her asking for some sort of support from the board when she no longer serves on the board.

She has requested it several times but still has not received the official cause.

Absolutely not!

 

SCR said: ↑
“Has Karen ever gotten an explanation as to why she was dismissed?
She has requested it several times but still has not received the official cause.”

Here it is!
McAdam’s limited notification from RCSC Board
See image from Sun City Indepedent
Wednesday, September 8, 2021 edition

 

I'll take exception to your comments and speak for both FYI and myself, i doubt either one of us want to be considered "wanna be lawyers." We do post both state statutes and the corporations documents because that is supposed to be how they govern. The point we are trying to make is quite simple; they aren't following their own rules or documents. Case in point is the proposal they "may" follow Robert's Rules of Order. That is simply gibberish for the fact they won't be held to any standards.

There is one former board member who posts here and she was in fact a legal assistant during her career. That doesn't make her a lawyer but it does give her a leg up on research over me or others. FYI has a really solid understanding of Robert's Rules and if he doesn't know he has access to a blog where he gets answers from parliamentarians. I hate the legal system and why i stay as far away from is as possible. Just not in my wheel house. However, documents and running a not for profit are what i did for living so i have a working knowledge how things should be done.

I have the deed restrictions at the Museum from the courses. I also have the newspaper articles from when the courses (all but Quail Run) were turned over to the RCSC and they formed an organization to oversee and run the courses. The documentation from that organization included the obligation to keep them self-sufficient. The organization was made up partially of existing board members and at some point they rolled it into the RCSC. While i was on the board i asked the gm where that documentation was and she said buried away in boxes. I asked if she could put her hands on it and she waffled and told me if she couldn't put her hands on it there was "plausible deniability."

Is that enough? I don't know. I do know for many many years everyone understood that golf and 10 pin bowling were set up differently than all other RCSC activities. They did that because of the potential for one or the other to become money pits. As time has gone by and the management team has acted if that wasn't the case, they have drifted to all kinds of strange arrangements. It included the firing of very expensive golf course workers, hiring an outside company to maintain them who hired back some of the employees at less money. Three years in the contractor was fired and they became employees again. There have also been instances where golf course improvements have come from general ledger without being billed back to golf. There's a question on how golf course equipment (leased or purchased) is billed and now i hear they are rolling golf courses into grounds maintenance with nearby rec centers. Don't know if it true but if it is we have simply blurred the lines on the accounting which helps keeps golf from having to raise their prices. It didn't take long once the gm was hired to realize every time they raised prices to play they lost more golfers. It's simply cause and effect.

Sorry for the long diatribe, understanding how we got here helps me which i suspect helps most of you.

 

If you want to make statements regarding the State of Arizona, the RCSC Corporate Documents as well as other legal items, one must quote the source, and provide the reference. If not, one can be held for Libel, as the items on this board are indeed written, they can be subpoenaed for their written records, and the person making the statement can be held liable for making false statements. I never pretended to be an attorney, as that is also illegal in most states. When I do venture out into an opinion, it is based upon other case law that has been upheld, by at least one court. Yes, I was a registered Paralegal in the State of Colorado many years ago. I may not have the Arizona Revised Statutes memorized (who does), but I at least know where to look, find the valid points of law, and post them for all to see and reference. I do feel it is completely valid and warranted to post and quote ones source of information, as it allows others the same opportunity to read and come to their own conclusions.

I also find it extremely helpful and on point to have Roberts Rules of Order brought up in these discussions. The board has NO ONE to rely on for the proper procedures and rules for meetings which is why they are a rogue group of incompetent volunteers who feast on their own contrived powers as any symbiote within their petri dish would.

We all can figure out who the originator is of the language change, and yes, it is intentional as I suspect. It appears to be evident to this writer this will be another rubber stamp item by the board for the GM, and damn the membership. It will be of interest to find out if they change the rules right now, knowing there is a great deal of anger within the community and significant dissatisfaction with their performance as a "board". Frankly I don't think they have really thought out what this bodes for them and this community long term, perhaps they forgot they will still have to live here after their term is up? People can be merciless with commentary on a face to face basis when given the opportunity. Been there, done that!

So, if there is a question of ethics or governing documents and I can find the source or the law which covers said discussion, I will post and quote as needed. I am truly in hope the Arizona Corporation Commission has heard of the extenuating circumstances occurring within Sun City and make it a point to visit or attend one of the board meetings in order to have a birds eye view of the dysfunction of this board and the GM.

To try and sue the RCSC for the various flagrant violations of their own policy as well as the law, well, none of us has that deep of pockets. The Lawyers for the RCSC would ensure you twisted in the wind forever. It will take action by the community to get our Sun City back, and face the daunting challenge of trying to make it at least comfortable and inclusive as it can be.

 

All good advice CMartinez and I can quote the source for every accusation I've made including the fact that the special meeting called to terminate director McAdam was null and void...as if it never happened. The problem is, as you say, the board believes their opinions hold more truth than the actual facts that they can read for themselves in black and white!

Their arrogance is breathtaking!

Perhaps somebody should request a commissioner from the Arizona Corporation Commission attend Monday's meeting?

 

Can we use the Freedom of Information Act to gain information/documentation such as the solar payoff and more?

 

You don't need it. There's a section in one of the documents about accessing information. You need bring a request to the office with what you want to see and they will bring you the records to look at.

 

But isn't there some type of non-disclosure form a RCSC Member has to sign along with the request to view documents? I don't think copies or photos are allowed and you can't share the information with anyone. I might not want to know how bad things are and not be able to do anything about it.

 

You might be right aggie. Been a long time since i paid attention to it.

A good day yesterday for the RCSC board. I know they met with the officers of the lawn bowling clubs and after that with the officers of the pickleball club. It's a step that should have been taken months back but better late than never. No idea what came out of the pickleball meeting but the lawn bowlers felt encouraged, as things were dangled in front of them that sound good. To the RCSC's credit apparently they did say by the time phase 3 of the Mountainview project comes around the likelihood all of the existing board members will be gone.

As we talked in the past, any promises or even suggestions about phase 3 are ludicrous. The simple reality is the Mountainview phase 1, theater, gym/fitness center and "resort" pool will take several years. The phase 2 portion with sports pool hasn't been passed, another year long project, and the phase 3 is at best 2025. Of course 2025 is when the water reduction plan will be enacted and the RCSC will receive no water for the roughs on their golf courses. Either they convert them to desert landscaping or let them turn to dead grass. The cost of conversion for the South course alone is 4 million dollars.

The point here is, no one knows where we will be by 2025. We can however safely project the costs of everything in front of us will be astronomical. The silly notion that phase 1 of the Mountainview project being 17 million dollars is laughable. Hell, they just got a 4 million dollar bid to build a storage barn for their golf equipment and they are pushing that forward.

I want to be an optimist; i do. I can also fairly well project where this will go in the next 6 months. I will just conclude with this thought that if you don't pay close attention to what is going on, you will in all likelihood find yourself on the short end of things. I know people want to believe what the RCSC tells them. I would just say, pay more attention to what they do, rather than what they say.

 

Am I wrong or isn't that sort of a reprieve for Karen? Is the board now admitting that everything Karen had been saying was correct?

So why is she gone?

 

***See attached Corporate Records Request Form***
RCSC Forms
Below are the necessary forms which may be required in conjunction with RCSC Bylaws and RCSC Board Policy requirements (other than BP-12, which can be found under Club Forms).

• Conflict of Interest Declaration
• Corporate Records Request (See attached form)
• Initiative, Referendum & Recall Petition Form
• Non-Owner Occupant Affidavit
• Physician Verification of Caretaker/Caregiver Requirement –Fillable Form | Print Version
• Refund Request Form
• Use & Rental of RCSC Facilities
• Reasonable Accommodations for Persons with Disabilities – Fillable Form | Print Version
• Incident Report – Fillable Form | Print Version

https://suncityaz.org/forms/