The bastards did it!

Discussion in 'Sun City General Discussions' started by FYI, Jun 27, 2021.

  1. FYI

    FYI Well-Known Member

    And wouldn't it be a hoot if she decides to run again this Fall?
     
  2. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    My best guess is they wouldn't let her. Same lame excuse...not capable of performing her duties. Yawn. Puke.
     
  3. FYI

    FYI Well-Known Member

    I don't think they can stop her? They can, according to the bylaws, remove you as an officer but you're still allowed to serve on the board, which I know is a totally different issue, but my point being, there's nothing in the qualifications to serve that prevents you from running if you were kicked off the board!

    It's not the boards decision who can and who can't run for the board.
     
  4. SCR

    SCR Active Member

    Bill, in post #15 you mentioned Karen's remarks to the board when she took the microphone.

    Can you enlighten me as to the date of that Board Meeting or whatever meeting it was.

    I do believe that Karen was railroaded because the other board members were threatened with her existence on the board.

    The only remark I remember from Karen is that the board sets the destination for the members.

    The GM should never have any input to the by laws, articles of incorporation, or any other official RCSC document.

    As far as selecting a new GM. Nothing will change there. It is now established that the GM makes ALL decisions for Sun City.
     
  5. SCR

    SCR Active Member

    Is there anything Inany RCSC document that precludes a board member that has been removed by the other members from running again for the board
     
  6. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    I posted her comments from October of 2020, so i suspect it was from either the first or second meeting in October last year. I was stunned because she read from the Articles of Incorporation at the microphone. It appeared she was taken aback how rudely they treated members who made comments. The AI’s state specifically the purpose of the RCSC and when she pointed it out to them i could see she was in for a rough ride. Board members seem to feel their job is to support the GM and the corporation.

    We have become victims of our own ineptness. By ceding authority to the GM over our documents we made her all-powerful. She in turn reduced their workload and wrote safeguards so the membership couldn’t come after them. Now we are reaping what we sowed. I took some shit on this site for refusing to get involved with the ARS lawsuit. Yes i could have helped them, but at what cost? I have no interest in getting even or making them pay because in the end, them is us. Sadly the board doesn’t see it that way.

    I would agree with you FYI, they shouldn’t be able to stop her from running, but then they shouldn’t have been able to kick her off the board. Their argument is pure crap, she was doing her job, it just wasn’t the way they wanted her to do it. Hardly grounds for dismissal. I’m not sure a suit isn’t in order for reinstatement and by all means having the dip shit that hurled that f-bombs at her should be on the table as well. They got by with it when they got Barbara and obviously they felt empowered.

    Finally, i suspect the board is pretty well convinced this will all die down during the summer. In most cases it would but this is different. The pickleball, lawn bowlers and tennis players come September will show up in force and i suspect we will see one butt ugly meeting. Imagine the shit that hits the fan when Karen steps to the mic for comments. Hell i may have to get off my fat ass and go to that meeting.
     
  7. SCR

    SCR Active Member

    Go for it Bill. We need as much input from MEMBERS as possible.

    Karen, if you read this forum, I implore you to continue to be a thorn in the side of the Board who only
    Serves the GM.
     
  8. FYI

    FYI Well-Known Member

    Now you know why they want to limit member comments to 3 minutes!!! I think Karen probably has a ton of support from various clubs and club members that could very well cause another 3 hour plus meeting?

    I suspect their next trick will be to place a fixed time to adjourn the meeting on the agenda so that when that specific time arrives Sue can gavel-down and immediately adjourn the meeting! Boy...wouldn't that piss everybody off? I don't think their stupid enough to try to pull that off but you never know!
     
  9. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    They (the RCSC) has created an interesting dilemma for themselves. This won't die down, not because Karen is gone, but because they've got to a point where no matter what they do, people will be angry. No offense to Karen, but she is just a subset to the bigger picture issue; how do you placate the sporting clubs you just kicked to the curb at Mountainview? Unless and until they resolve that, there will be no peace or harmony as they try and move forward on this project. It is a teachable moment on how not to govern.

    I am always amazed by people in positions of authority who have so little capacity to judge how people will react. What did they expect when they flipped the script and at the last possible moment put plan b on the table? What did they expect when they went from p-ball being there to disappearing in total, along with the other stuff? What did the expect when their knee-jerk response to Karen's efforts resulted in them firing her? The list is nearly endless and proof positive that dealing with the membership/owners should be done in a way that doesn't look like you are trying to shove things through.

    Sadly, it is what happens when you concentrate power in the hands of a few rather than spreading it across the broader base of the community. The past 15 years has taken us to this point and now how the hell do we fix it? Way above my pay grade, but someone at the RCSC better start making the effort to bring us back to sanity.
     
  10. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Fascinating the number of folks following this thread. Over 600 reads since it went up last Sunday. As we were wandering about the pool last night, my wife asked, "how come we haven't seen anything about Karen being fired? Are you sure it is true?" I kind of scratched my head, because she is correct, other than on this site, i have heard or seen nothing. In that i didn't start this thread, i am pretty comfortable in the information FYI has posted it 100% authentic. There's been nary a word about Gene W being the chosen one either, but as i said earlier it fits their pattern to a tee.

    I would also be remiss in not amplifying a point Karen made at the meeting and seemed to go unnoticed or perhaps better stated, ignored. I tend to follow other communities, at least a little bit. She stated there were 6 communities around or near us she surveyed. All of them had more courts per capita than Sun City. I had done no formal study, but i have felt we were under built in comparison to other age restricted communities when it came to pickleball. I've read a number of articles over the years where i have seen the total number of courts in much smaller communities.

    When adding our two venues together we have 27 total, 20 at Marinette and 7 at Mountainview (please feel to correct me if i am wrong). While that is a good number and more total than some communities, when you consider the number of residents we have, it falls far short on a comparison basis. You can use 40,000 residents or 27,000 plus rooftops but in either case, other smaller communities are much higher on a percentage basis. The answer is easy as to why...it is the one sport that is growing faster than any other. Closing 7 courts will absolutely make us under developed even worse.

    That was her point and sadly it appeared to have fallen on deaf ears.
     
  11. SCR

    SCR Active Member

    I did hear Karen say she did her homework and checked with other communities as to the number of PB courts they have.
    The board however, did not care to hear this as I suspect their decision to remove Karen had already been made.

    Everything that has been posted here so far is here-say and gossip.

    We need to hear from the board and we need to hear from Karen.

    I suspect the board decided to remove her after the last meeting of the board till the fall meeting hoping people will forget what has transpired.
     
  12. aggie

    aggie Well-Known Member

    The only thing to substantiate that Karen was removed from the BOD is the fact her photo and name(including on all committees) are no longer on the RCSC website. There is no photo of Gene and the Board shows one vacancy. Very poor communications from the BOD & Management on this issue.
     
  13. SCR

    SCR Active Member

    The GM should have nothing to say regarding Karen’s dismissal.
     
  14. FYI

    FYI Well-Known Member

    Granted, I cannot confirm that Gene was selected as a replacement but my source was very reliable.
    I can guarantee you that Director McAdam was terminated.
    I can guarantee you that she didn't learn about the meeting until it was to late.
    I can guarantee you that she was terminated using the excuse that she was unable to perform her duties.
    You can take that to the bank!

    And I'm pretty darn sure that this is far from over...stay tuned!
     
    BPearson likes this.
  15. Poison_Ivy

    Poison_Ivy Member

    Oh it's not over for sure. People are pissed. Watch the Independent Monday, surely there will be something written. I want to know what we can do to help get a quorum at these member meetings? Where do I find the dates? I'm going to start talking it up to get enough there to meet the quorum #
     
  16. FYI

    FYI Well-Known Member

    Not sure what the date is, I think it's in October but not sure!

    All I know is that the last Member meeting to achieve a quorum was back in 2009! We now need 1,250 Members to achieve a quorum. If we can get that many members to attend the next Membership meeting then there's a possibility we can amend the bylaws to lower the requirement, but there are a couple of hoops we need to jump thru to make sure the amendment is given proper previous notice.

    We still have time to see if Director McAdam either challenges her dismissal or perhaps decides to run for the board again in the Fall?

    I for one hopes she doesn't just let this quietly slip below the radar. If they can do this to her, and I understand they did the same thing to Barbara Brehm, then it will just continue to happen! We need to show the board that the Members have the final say in any decision.
     
  17. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    The members were stripped of that right years back. It used to be that way and then it wasn't. The GM convinced the board to save Sun City (from themselves), changes to the documents were needed. With barely a whimper, though lots of members spoke out, members became irrelevant. I was foolish enough to believe that board members would care about the concept of self-governance. In the end, they liked having not only the final say, but really, the only say. I would love for any one of them currently to come on this site and debate/dispute my position. They won't, because they can't.

    The next board meeting is in Sept. Doesn't matter, because that is a "board meeting," not a "membership meeting." Our/your next chance for a "membership meeting" is in January or February. That's when, if you got a quorum of 1250 to attend, a motion could be made from the floor as long as more than 50% approved of the motion. It used to be there were quarterly membership meetings and if more than 100 members were present they would hold the meeting. Often there weren't, but if people were pissed and showed up in force they would have to hold the meeting. It kept them (the board) from doing dumb stuff. Push back would and could be quick.

    We also had the power to sign petitions for a recall of board members, and there were two instances of the recall happening in our history. In one case the officers stayed in power, in the other the president was removed. In those days they could sign the recall petition on RCSC grounds. That too was changed as only petitions for getting elected can be signed on RCSC property. Worse yet if you go to the by-laws you will see this weirdly long set of obligations (hoops to jump through) if you were somehow to secure the required signatures away from centers and golf courses. I posted them once on here and i was stunned at the crap someone wrote to insure a board member couldn't be removed by the membership.

    With the technicalities out of the way, SCR is right; they are counting on you all to forget what they have done come fall. If 600 or 700 people show up at the first meeting in September it will scare the living crap out of them. I know the lawn bowlers from Mountainview will be pissed and livid that no one from the board or management talked to them about their green going away. I'm not even talking about the merits of lawn bowling being there, i mean the common decency to talk to people ahead of time before you put your plans in play. That's just common sense and how this community has been run for a very long time.

    Finally, Karen may well have legal remedy. I won't pretend to be an expert on this, because i am not. If they got rid of her for being "incapable of performing her duties" i find that ludicrous. She is better versed in the boards duties and functions than the entire lot of them. My guess is her removal in the way they did it could be a blemish on her reputation and her character. I suspect their defense is they never said anything but the reality is she is gone after questioning the boards actions and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why or the fact they did it. Too bad Barbara moved out of Sun City. She had an extensive background in property management and she told me at the last Museum meeting she attended (she was the RCSC liaison) she had some concerns and she wasn't willing to ignore them. The next meeting she was gone.

    Finally, finally, i know Rusty well enough from the Independent if there is a story to be got, he'll get it. Should be interesting, now i'm looking forward to getting older.

    PS. Let me post the RCSC's position in Monday's paper: "we don't comment on personnel matters." Hopefully i am wrong...we'll see.
     
  18. FYI

    FYI Well-Known Member

    Well, according to the Articles of incorporation, Article VIII, Section 4, we, the Members have the final say, but you're right, they make you jump thru hoops.

    I'd say it's almost impossible to go thru a mid-year petition process. The only real and easier hope would be to get a quorum and amend the bylaws at an annual Membership meeting. And of course giving RCSC proper notice to publish the agenda for the meeting.
     
  19. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    You are right FYI, the Articles of Incorporation do say that. After the recalls in the 80's and 90's someone got the bright idea to help us understand (minimize) the power of the membership. I am going to do this in two parts because one would drag on forever. It is simply shameful...SHAMEFUL:
    ARTICLE IX – INITIATIVE, REFERENDUM AND RECALL PETITIONS
    Per the Articles, any initiative, referendum, or recall petition must have a total number of signers not less than ten percent (10%) of the voting Members of the Corporation as of the preceding July 1. All signers must have signed in person and they must provide their Property address, Member Card number and the expiration date thereof. The completed petition will be filed with the Secretary of the Corporation.

    A recall petition will set forth the name of the Board of Director whose removal is desired and the reasons for the recall.

    A referendum petition must set forth the existing policy or regulation that is being challenged in clear and precise language that will allow the challenge to be determined by a “YES” OR “NO” vote. Any proposition will be subject to the requirements and limitations of the Corporate Documents.

    Before an initiative petition is filed, the party or parties intending to circulate and file such a petition, will submit to the Board the proposal in the exact language that the initiative will contain. The Board will have sixty (60) days from the date of submission to accept or reject the proposal. If the proposal is accepted, the petition will be assigned a petition control number by the Secretary of the Corporation.

    If issues can be resolved without the petition process, the Board and the Members will achieve savings in terms of cost and time while avoiding disharmony and divisiveness in Sun City, Arizona.
     
  20. FYI

    FYI Well-Known Member

    Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Have the board decide if we can recall one of its own members. Talk about conflict of interest!!!

    There needs to be some sort of neutral arbiter to make those decisions.

    Just think, if director McAdam finally does get a hearing from the board. The same damn board that terminated her 7-0. Yeah, that's fair.....
     

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