Th Planning Session from May 20; ouch!

Discussion in 'Sun City General Discussions' started by BPearson, May 29, 2021.

  1. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Well SHIT. Sorry for oversized profanity but it is well deserved. If you haven't watched the meeting yesterday, you need to. It's that bad. The board looked shell shocked, as well they should. No one likes surprises but none of this should be a surprise. Had we not operated as a one woman-gang leading the way, all of this would have could have been built into the equation as we planned for the future.

    And please don't start with the Monday morning quarter back crap. If you go back over the past years of my posting (10 at least) you will see i have been harping on this repeatedly. There's not one ounce of joy in "i told you so." I learned long ago you plan to succeed, but if you fail to plan, then you don't succeed; you simply live with the consequences. And that's where we are at this exact moment in time, Imagine how the new GM, Bill Cook, feels about this?

    Let me tell you exactly why our history was/is so damned important. Over the 18 years to build out, the rec centers were deeded to the community almost immediately. The golf courses didn't come to the RCSC until 1977. There was an apprehension by the boards of them becoming money pits. That is why when they took them, they wrote into their documents the need for them to be self-sufficient. And for many years they were run that way. Then a funny thing happened when the new gm came along and started doing everything herself. Every budget was done by her. Sure there was a rubber stamp committee, but they had no real say other than to bless it. When the lake deal was done, we all breathed a sigh of relief, but to my knowledge i have never talked to a board member who has seen it, or knew what it said.

    Then along the way we started shoveling money at golf courses. I always endorsed any watering improvements; wells, water distribution and new irrigation. The other stuff was just lipstick on a pig; throwaways of 3 million here and 3 million there. Then we started spending money out of capital expenses and not billing it back to golfers. It's why i have repeatedly called for a forensic audit. The only way golf will ever be measured accurately is when the cost of it is actually paid for by golfers and not subsidized or buried in the budgeting process. As long as we hide the true cost, we will be mired in the answer "the state is making us do it."

    Now the costs will start to bite the entire community in the butt...big time. Aggie is right, forget Mountainview, forget softball buildings, hell forget anything on the long range planning budget as everything will yet again be shoveled at golf. A game that is on a downward trend and only about 12% of the residents play.
  2. FYI

    FYI Member

    What the F? Are you kidding me?

    I just watched the Planning Session, which was 25 minutes long and it wasn't until the last 3 minutes when one of the Directors finally asked about the leaking lake, and lo and behold, the leaking lake suddenly became the number-one issue with regards to the ADWR?

    Was management not going to mention anything about the leaking lake?

    Yeah, you can kiss a lot of capital improvements goodbye!
  3. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    It was curious they waited till the end of the meeting to address the lake FYI. Most people aren't aware of the struggle regarding the lake and just how ugly that "fix" might be. 11 years ago before the state gave us a reprieve we were looking at about 10 million dollars to reseal it and around a year of headaches to do it. Nothing pretty about it and i expect it has become multiple times worse. And to be sure this has been on the books and everyone knew it was coming one way or the other.

    The bigger problem is the community is excited about the Mountainview rebuild, the fact a theater is finally around the corner and a myriad of other items we had been considering. And an aside, i am excited to see the musical events restarting and Theresa has a couple of great shows planned. Unfortunately the tickets aren't going to be sold on line, an issue the RCSC has been trying to implement for years now. Go figure.
  4. FYI

    FYI Member

    And that may be another good reason to build the performing arts theater as a separate building. The cost of a smaller building would be a benefit and could probably be completed before they even started on demolition of Mountain View. The performers would never miss giving a single performance?
  5. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Either way FYI, it's not going to be in their budget. Back when they held the Mountainview open meetings two years ago i talked to one of the theater members about having their own building more in the center of the community. He was literally taken aback i would suggest it, even it would have/could have been larger. The simple truth was they knew Mountainview was their quickest option and saw nothing but that venue. Now when it all gets shuffled to the back of the bus the shit will hit the fan. Wait, you can here this one coming: we have to put it off because of the cost of materials.
  6. FYI

    FYI Member

    You are no doubt better informed than than I when it comes to the inner workings of the RCSC, but I have two questions;

    1. If the theater people were given the option of a stand alone performing arts theater within the next year or two or having to wait for several years and the renovation of Mountain View, what do you think their response would be then?

    2. What's the plan of the theater Players and or RCSC that would allow them to continue presenting their performances while Mountain View is shut down and renovations are taken place?
  7. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    I'll take a whack at this FYI, but it is just my best guess:
    1). The battle for a performing Arts Theater has been going on for 30 some years. Some of their proposals took it off site from Mountainview so i suspect the easy answer to this one is it is way more important to them when it is than where it is. I think the response if this gets shelved for the lake repair and converting golf courses to desert landscaping will be butt ugly.
    2). I've heard nothing but it would be wholly unrealistic and devastating to the club if they went dormant for two years. The only real option for a venue is the Sun Dial Auditorium and frankly that stage would be an upgrade. Storage for stuff could be outback in pods of one form or another. The bigger issue would be cross-utilization. When the Players are putting on a show, it isn't just the days/nights they perform but all of the preparation that goes into it.

    All of which takes me back to my biggest gripe was our failure to buy the Lakes Club when the nursing school vacated. We met with the owners of the building and they said they didn't want to lose money on it. They owned 3.2 million and given what has happened since then my guess is they wish we would have bought it. The land was owned by the Sun Health Foundation and they were willing to work out a deal with us (allegedly). The building is 38,000 square feet and at one point housed Theater Works so converting it to a first class theater wouldn't have been a big deal. Unfortunately the gm and the board were fixated on golf.
  8. FYI

    FYI Member

    Is there any real chance of that happening?

    What kinda pissed me off a bit was when I found out they were offered over a million bucks for the building that is now the Grand Avenue Rec Center that they only paid $750,000 for. The excuse I got was that they couldn't sell it because the approval of the sale had to go thru the general membership because of the $50,000 asset requirement in the Bylaws. Why the heck didn't they buy that thru the Sun City Property Holdings? Isn't that the purpose for it, for real estate dealings? They could have resold the building and made a nice profit but I guess the new rec center is a monument to the Board members, at least some?

    Let's face it, the population of Sun City is basically a finite size and population. It's not like Sun City is continuing to grow and requires more Rec Centers?
  9. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    A couple of quick responses FYI. There is zero chance at this point of buying the Lakes Club which is tragic. It was an opportunity to reshape and rethink the community and a path forward. We put more money into the Grand Ave project than we would have to have bought the Lakes Club and refurbish it top to bottom. Unless and until we resolve the lake and golf course challenges everything else will be in limbo.

    I forgot all about the creation of the Sun City Property Holdings creation. Never did understand it, still don't.

    One final thought about population in Sun City. We know the problems we (the RCSC) faces with the state dictating terms of how much water we will be getting per course. That isn't just for our courses, so now take a look at what this will do to the 3 private country clubs (even though they aren't private and are open to the public). They have no desert landscaping, so there choice will be to let the rough areas turn brown and dead looking or make the multi-million dollar investment to convert them. Hell, in some instances they paid less than that to buy them. It is the exact reason i have told friends when asking about where to buy, the one place i said not to was on any of the 3 private courses.
  10. FYI

    FYI Member

    Well, I'd classify it as a shell corporation. It gives them the ability to sell property to satisfy a lien without having to get approval from the general membership. A simple Bylaw change, which they could do per their own Bylaws, could allow them to also purchase property.

    It's interesting to see who's names appear in the Property Holdings Articles of Incorporation!

    I would tend to believe that the re-purchase of the Lakes Club would be more than the $750,000 they paid for the Grand Avenue property, (it's lake front!!) but if they could have sold that for over a million dollars, and not having spent a dime on the property, that sure would have been a sweet deal! And you're right, the Lakes Club would be a fantastic location for a performing arts theater.

    But it appears the rumors are true and the Grand Avenue project is a monument to Dan Schroeder. And Like I said above, it's not like Sun City is continuing to grow in population or size and requires more Rec Centers?

    We definitely need a new set of Directors who can think for themselves. I think we have a few now and hopefully a few of the existing Directors will be gone after the next election, unless they continue to bring back retreads?
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2021
  11. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    So i am more clear FYI, the Lakes Club with a purchase price of 4 million and 5 to 6 million in renovations would have put us in the same range as the Grand Ave center; 10 million, give or take. The difference is the Lakes club would have given us a theater, administrative offices, provided permanent class rooms and card rooms with no set up and take down, spectacular frontage on the lake with a spot for coffee shop, ice cream bar and a nice lounge for a jazz combo and the like. It was that freaking big. Then with the offices out of Lakeview Rec Center and the social halls gone
    , there would have been tons of space for the clubs looking for their own dedicated space.

    I try not to personally attack board members. They have been swallowed up by group think and the gm has taken them down a path she was comfortable in/with. Sure, plenty of good stuff but lots of negative they just want to pretend never happened. Now as she leaves there are issues that will cause more pain and angst than most people will ever realize. Too many chose to ignore what is happening unless it affects them or a club they are involved in.

    I do hope we can break the cycle of dragging back retreads. We need new people, fresh ideas and a gm with an open mind. We'll see eh?
  12. FYI

    FYI Member

    That all sounds too good to be true....but wouldn't it be nice? It would be freak'n paradise! We just need people on the Board who have vision and agree to make things like that happen instead of buying old run down restaurants?!
    BPearson likes this.
  13. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    There was not a more frustrating time in my 3 years on the board than when that building became available and the vision to see what and why it was the best money we could spend was simply lost on people who would not see. It would have changed the community dynamic dramatically. We went the route of electing golfers who saw the golf investment touted by the gm as brilliant. Even then golf was losing its appeal, courses were closing and younger people weren't taking up the sport. I would argue if you are going to make that kind of investment, what kind of plan/promotion were you going to do to help insure it succeed. Crickets were all that could be heard.

    Here's the simple reality; while not a perfect science, roughly 50% of the community turns over every ten years. My argument was we needed to look at the long range strategy factoring in that kind of turnover and recognizing the importance of the buyers coming over the next twenty years. Huh? Sadly we don't think that way. The long range planning committee has been doing some really quality work but you can see the push back they are getting. Our best hope is the new gm will be more forward thinking. We'll see?
  14. Say What

    Say What Member

    Solution to the lake leak: get rid of it. Use the land for new offices, rec center, theater, club rooms, places for all card and meeting events. This would allow all rec centers more space for clubs!

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