Public Income Statement

Eileen,
There’s absolutely no reason why this community can’t razzle dazzle again. We have all the tools and resources to make this the type of place that is where people want to be, not just merely exist.
We have rec centers in place that only need a member centric focus to put in place programs the members would enjoy and find useful. Expand the utilization of the space already here to be multi purpose to accommodate more activities. These centers, with the “dedicated space” need to find ways to share this space for better use of the available footprint. The example I think of is the cooking classes offered by other communities. There would be an interest I am sure.
Look at ways to place a moratorium on the amount of rental properties available in each phase of Sun City. When there are too many renters in a market, it fails to thrive due to lack of ownership interest.
Develop some of the golf course land into multi unit homes. The high density model makes sense for development as well as generating income for the PIF fund. The water supply issue is a perfect opportunity to look at ways to reduce water consumption and provide land for development.
Getting the owners of the strip malls to take notice and change their current tenants is not something I foresee happening. The tax breaks garnered by doing business as they do today is far more lucrative than actually investing in improving the properties. Doesn’t mean a liaison position from SCHOA couldn’t have an impact on the property management company to be more involved in community development.
The old saying of it takes money to make money couldn’t be more true in the case of Sun City. If we want to further expand community outreach to include development and generating revenue then we need someone capable of building that new revenue strategy. Not a board member, but a qualified commercial property manager who knows how to create a business model capable of utilizing the available space for development and expanding the community. I know, not many will like the idea of repurposing some of the greens, but it makes so much sense from a revenue generating model.
Thought I would throw out some additional ideas for creating avenues for generating income and increasing revenue. The need to put a handle on the amount of rentals is also one that needs immediate attention.

 

Just curious. What about the owners of the homes on the golf courses who bought specifically for the open view? Is there anything in their sales contract about that? I know it was a pretty big issue at Union Hills CC. I know someone who has a home on Riverview, I can ask them.

 

Just curious. How do you plan to help the people living at or below poverty level, who live month to month on SSI as their only income? You said the residents would have to absorb costs. What are your plans for those who can't?

Sun City was an awesome place, everything you want, back in the 80's and 90's, but it's changed. SC has been coined over the years as the least expensive 55+ community to live. I understand you want to revive this town, however a lot of people bought here because it was what they could afford. What are your plans for them? Also I am really curious why you purchased here knowing what it was? Why not Grand or SCW? Guessing you purchased around 2015 give or take a year or two? Genuinely curious.

 

Eileen,
Thank you for your vote of confidence in what could be expressed to those in the community who could make a difference.
That also creates an opportunity to try to find out who to direct the appeals to. We have the benefit of having TOSC to share ideas as to how to move forward. But who do we take these ideas to so they can be considered and implemented in a meaningful way?
Normally finding a board member to champion the cause would be the best answer. I am not familiar with the current members so I am at a loss as to what direction to pursue. I also believe Rick Gray and his experience with this community is going to be an asset for the board. Having said that, my fear is that the powers that be will not be open to expanding the mindset of the collective. The experience coming to the RCSC is needing to be welcomed and encouraged by the current board members and embraced as a new valuable resource. We can only hope.
New, innovative and outside the box thinking takes time for all to digest. Yet, the time to learn and implement new strategies and techniques is now. Wasting any more time is going to have costs involved. Those costs will have to be borne by the members and have nothing productive to show for the money spent. The centers need remodeling, that is an identified need. Creating a theater is not needed for this community to thrive. We need people, members to help rebuild our community with a sense of purpose with a vision for the future.

 

Oh wow! You must have gone to St. Geralds. Don't tell Dave.

Yes, Jesus said, “The poor you will always have with you” in Matthew 26:11. However, the full quote is “The poor you will always have with you, but you will not always have me”.
Jesus said this to his disciples, and it has multiple meanings:

• Correcting the idea that love for Jesus is wasted
  Jesus was correcting the idea that any act of love for Jesus is ever wasted.
• Foreshadowing his crucifixion
  Jesus was foreshadowing the fact that he would be crucified the next day.
• Suggesting his role in ending poverty
  Jesus was suggesting his significant role and the role of his disciples in ending poverty.

Jesus’ statement “the poor will be with you always but you will not always have me” is not about pitting the poor against Jesus or even about pitting the poor Jesus against the other poor. Instead, Jesus is trying to suggest his significant role and the role of the (mostly) poor disciples in ending everyone’s poverty and the epistemological, political, and moral agency and leadership of the poor. The poor are a stand-in for Jesus (as he established in Matt 25:31-46, the Last Judgment). God’s children and the foundation of the movement to materialize God’s reign on earth are not the rich, not the usual philanthropists or “change-makers”, but the poor. God is not only aligned with the poor, but, in fact, present in (and of) the poor.

• Testamenting to Jesus's importance
  Jesus was testifying to the fact that Jesus comes before all other people in our lives.

Some say that this verse is often taken out of context to justify theories about the inevitability of inequality. However, others say that it is actually one of the strongest biblical mandates to end poverty.

From Dave:

FYI, not Tom, my comments on Catholicism were directed towards the Church and their nearly 2,000 year money hustle, inventing things, hypocrisy and basic corruption sold to the membership as truth. As far as your juju beads, that’s part of the hustle. As anything directed at you, it was St Gerald’s and their attitude towards other people and their religion. You attended this Church, you were complicit, like voting for Trump. Whatever he does be good or evil, you voted for him, it’s on you. It called responsibility not some stupid made up disease to pass the buck.

Happy New Year!

Geoffrey de Villehardouin, Today at 8:56 AM

This is so funny! What are the odds that Dave would run into two people from St. Gerald's Church in Oak Lawn IL, totally disparaging one (You attended this Church, you were complicit) and the other (Eileen) has no accusations of being complicit. Sure sounds like defamation to me. BTW Dave my Rosary (juju beads) are made from roses from my maternal grandmother's funeral. She died before I was born and one rosary was made for each of her 9 children. I inherited it from my mom. It's 75 years old.

 

SCG - Thank you for your insight. I am of like mind and recognize that there are many diverse viewpoints. While I recognize that our community has a significant number of seniors who have outlived their resources there are a vast majority that have not. Every community has the same dilemma. How to best provide for the common good. There are no easy one size fits all solutions. I have always believed that the best solutions from grassroots movements IF THE MAJORITY OF CITIZENS ARE POSITIVELY ENGAGED IN THE GOVERNANCE OF THE COMMUNITY. In order to achieve such engagement decision makers need to genuinely solicit input and use it in wise ways.

I can't help feeling our recreational governance is badly broken and our members and employees have reached a high level of angry apathy. I have written often that RCSC is stuck in the mud. The vast majority of our governance efforts are directed at addressing the perpetually dissatisfied. We therefore lack the manpower or initiative to plot a course to future success. I have said many times I believe the key to our future success is to adopt a carefully thought-out and expertly guided master plan and resist the temptation to deviate from it just because special interest groups become vocal.

Thanks for caring about our community!

Best Regards and God Bless,

John Fast

 

John,
There is a minority of dissension in the community. That is because many who live here don’t remember how great this place can be. The occasional lone voice on here deserves no credence, as when all this person does is complain without a positive rebuttal, they are just another peice of the puzzle that offers no value.
So, I blocked what I believe to be an entirely useless voice for positive change.
If everyone knew what this community was about and what it could be, the very culture of Sun City would be a bright beacon for the future. As long as the quagmire of leadership, or lack there of continues, there could be a downside that could be hard to overcome. In my opinion, there is no real path set for the future of Sun City. As you stated, such a huge opportunity exists to create a master plan with an eye for the future of this community. This moving forward for the sake of making moves is causing great damage to the assets as they stand. There is no clear direction put forward and the desire to spend money without a clear path is ludicrous. There are so many needs that need to be addressed much more than a theater. Renovation of the oldest centers needs to be done with the local population using those resources as a yard stick to guide the development. MV cannot support a huge theater. The parking situation alone indicates that. The loss of current amenities and capacity for a theater is a huge waste of money. To lose seasoned lawn bowl greens, to never be replaceable is a travesty. Those greens bring in international competition to the community which in turn brings in revenue.
The community needs are far greater in scope than the complete picture being painted. The same needs were present when I was a board member, so I know the need is truly great.
I know there’s a few good people out there that are true community leaders. These are the same people that can create a group of like minded individuals who can come together to build the community we want and need. As eager as I am to want to be an immediate participant, I think the huge gouge on my ankle is going to redirect me for a few weeks. Nope, not looking for sympathy, merely stating a fact.
Sorry for going so long John. We have such tremendous opportunities and talent present, I wish we could have a newspaper again to get the word out. Email is good for those who have it, but the paper seemed to always invite conversation.

 

Carole I have been coming here since the early 1980's. If you would bother to do some research you would know that Bill and I have a long standing difference of opinion because we can't keep businesses here yet SCW can. That was the main reason for his speech at the May exchange meeting I posted earlier. He says we don't need that, I say we do, and that is part of the reason SC has become what it is today. 477 homes for sale, People are choosing the newer communities. That and the fact that if this is to be a permanent home cash is the only way to buy. Current interest rates are so high now, and rates are low for someone who has owned another home for a while. Many can't afford to swap the low mtg rate for a high one.

Back to Bill's speech about the internet and we don't need shops anymore, I asked why Trader Joe's moved close to SCW. And Tivoli Gardens, and the SHF Resale shop that has been here for 40 years moved to SCW, Nino's restaurant on Grand in Fry's shopping center moved to SCW. Resale shops gone. We don't need banks? Where do we go when we need cash? You can't order cash online. Yes there are cash stations but I don't want to pay the service fee so I go to my bank! Why do they still have investment advisors in the banks?

Then folks want a nice new huge PAC, for what? SCW tore theirs down, or rather ASU did after SCW sold it to them. Now there is a huge Fry's Market complete with bar and food. The GM put the residents thru hell in 2024. We need to fix what we have before we do the glitz and glam. If we don't the glitz will be worthless because the original structures will look like garbage and will stick out like a giant zit on a nose compared to a few little glam shops.

Chatting with a couple of neighbors earlier about this and they said at the rate things get done around here we probably don't have to worry.

Regards,
Zero Value

 

eyesopen I would whole heartedly agree with you on the commune assessment. As I recall most communes accept people of like mind, working for a specific purpose and good of the group. This entails having a positive attitude and outlook towards your community and fellow commune members. Oooops, don’t see any of these attributes present in the chat naysayer. Great idea though, thanks for seeking, and continuing to find ways to be positive.

 

Enlighten me Chris. Please quote where I said "I was to be taken care of" by Sun City. I did NOT take the one-time assistance. So tired of you gals putting words in my mouth. Wouldn't this be removed as "Public Shaming" on Nextdoor?

 

" A small town in miniature." It was the refrain proclaimed in the amazing early 1960's video, The Beginning. It featured the newly opened Sun City and the remarkable feel of replicating small towns like many of the buyers came from. It was the shopping center they focused on, and well they should. Its neighbor, Youngtown, had been open for 6 years and had nothing comparable.

And for those unfamiliar, Peoria was a fledgling community much like ours. Glendale was bigger, but was a ways off and Surprise was barely there. As buyers moved into Sun City they loved the quaint feel of shopping centers within minutes of their home. Strip malls were the rage in the 60's and early 70's. By the time Sun City went north of Bell Road (phase 3), shopping habits were already changing. Which is one of the reasons there is barely anything commercial in phase 3.

By the end of the 70's, big box stores were just starting; Walmart and Kmart were the two most notable. And along with them the 10,000-15,000 sq ft neighborhood grocery stores were being surpassed by grocery chain stores 2-3 times their size. Sun City commercial property was overbuilt because that's what those living here wanted and were willing to support them. There were more than 30 banks and savings and loans in the community and all were able to survive and flourish.

By the time Sun City West opened, the adjacent communities around them were better established, so Meeker created a hub in the middle of the community around the Johnson Rec Center and virtually all of the shopping areas were located on the streets leading to that massive rec center which also housed the Sun Dome. As the community spread out over the next 15 years, commercial development was kept to a minimum in an effort to maximize the number of homes they could build.

It was a well devised plan and it has served the community well. The reality is they built far less commercial property, so they have less empty store fronts. And as long as we are chatting about Sun City West, they have 368 homes for sale. For reference purposes, they have roughly 18,000 homes compared to our 27,000, so a third less homes. I'm not going to waste my time doing a percentage comparison of homes for sale, but its very close to the number in Sun City.

Really, this was all just to make my point, i've never, NEVER said we should not have retail/commercial property in Sun City. One poster likes/loves to exaggerate things people say to try and inflate their own worth, point of view. What i have said is Sun City was overbuilt. DEVCO did that on purpose, because it was what worked at the time. Think about small towns these days as their downtown areas have been devastated by big box stores and online shopping.

When Sun City opened, there were no Walmarts, no Kmarts, no Amazon, no door dash, no online banking. Everything was done across a counter with a teller, a cashier and a waitress. There were tons of investments firms where people went and saw their financial guy. Banks were busy as locals went several times a week, got coffee and chatted. Go to a bank now and try and find someone besides a teller or 2. Once the internet became mainstream, life as we knew it changed.

It was simply an evolutionary process. It wasn't anyone's fault. Once companies figured out how to monetize the net, each passing year increased the revenue in online shopping habits and transactions. And then the shit hit the fan, the pandemic resulted in us being locked away and forced online. That changed us even more, like it or not, each generation after the boomers will be growing in dependency on technology.

We are on yet another sea-change of behavior and Generation X and Generation Y are vastly different than boomers and the greatest generation. Just because we live in Sun City does not mean we can avoid or pretend society's difficulties will somehow miss us. To think that is folly. Those white walls don't keep the changes out; it means we need to learn how to navigate them, adjust to them and make the best out of circumstances beyond our control.

We need to learn to manage them. It's that simple. But in reality it's not is it?

I've been writing this for years. I've always understood what happens outside the walls eventually happens inside the walls. Here's a cut from an article posted non this site on Sept 26, 2015: There's no question, life inside these white walls surrounding Sun City AZ is a little like living in the biosphere. But reality tells us it's foolish to pretend the trends impacting the age restricted marketplace aren't influencing us. Google news this week had a couple of articles worth note for those who like to get their arms around what's happening outside the community and those buying into our way of life.

You can read the article here. It's just one of many, but the point is this information has always been available for anyone who pays any attention. Tomorrow we can take a look at the bigger picture and while one poster wants us all to believe all of these problems are unique to Sun City, it's hardly the case, in fact we do a better job than some, at least with some of the challenges.

 

You are insulting my and everyone else's intelligence. You "quoted me" then posted. If that is not a reference to me I don't know what is.

Josie P said↑
Just curious. How do you plan to help the people living at or below poverty level, who live month to month on SSI as their only income? You said the residents would have to absorb costs. What are your plans for those who can't?

Sun City was an awesome place, everything you want, back in the 80's and 90's, but it's changed. SC has been coined over the years as the least expensive 55+ community to live. I understand you want to revive this town, however a lot of people bought here because it was what they could afford. What are your plans for them? Also I am really curious why you purchased here knowing what it was? Why not Grand or SCW? Guessing you purchased around 2015 give or take a year or two? Genuinely curious.

Same song, over and over. Nothing promised to me that when I bought any the many homes we lived in I’d be “taken care of” financially by the community forever. I didn’t expect it and think it is not RCSC’s responsibility other than a one-time temporary assistance.

Are communes still a thing? As long as you can contribute you’re cared for in that community…

eyesopen, Today at 1:13 PM

So much for aa attempt at a non toxic TOSC.[/QUOTE] You are 100% correct on this. The hits have increased 10 fold towards me since the 20th of December when the rules were updated. You know very well this type of communication would never be allowed on Next door.

 

Did a search on that Bill and the only thing that came up was this post. Re stores and restaurants closing here is my response to Carole:

Back to Bill's speech about the internet and we don't need shops anymore, I asked why Trader Joe's moved close to SCW. And Tivoli Gardens, and the SHF Resale shop that has been here for 40 years moved to SCW, Nino's restaurant on Grand in Fry's shopping center moved to SCW. Resale shops gone. We don't need banks? Where do we go when we need cash? You can't order cash online. Yes there are cash stations but I don't want to pay the service fee so I go to my bank! Why do they still have investment advisors in the banks?

And here is your speech why we don't need shops:

2:14:36 mark

RCSC Exchange Meeting - Monday, May 13, 2024

 

Bank of America at 107&Grand with Desert Financial CU nearby. BMO Harris by Lakeview rec center. Can’t speak for others north of Grand.

 

Rents get too high, contracts are up, and they find cheaper venues many times! Many landlords ripping vendors off on too high of rents...is main reason!

 

To no one in particular…
Some things never change.
Have fun kicking sand in this playground.

 

So we are perfectly clear, there is no Trader Joe's in Sun City West. There is no Tivoli restaurant in Sun City West. Both are in Surprise.

 

They chose sites right across Bell from SCW and across Grand from SCW. Most likely due to the fact that all retail spaces are full in SCW.

 

The more things change the more they remain the same

What's Wrong With Sun City? | Page 2 | Talk of Sun City

 

So tiring. Back to Bill's speech about the internet and we don't need shops anymore, I asked why Trader Joe's moved close to SCW. And Tivoli Gardens,

If you are going to quote me please get it right. This is why nothing will change here on TOSC. Rules for me not for thee.

The more I read posts on this site the more I understand. 4 years ago:

At what point do you push back? At the fake member meetings where no one has a voice? At the BOD directors meeting where the directors are led by their noses to the trough of EK? I truly believe there are many who are not happy with the way things are going, but like me, feel helpless to do anything. Yea, yea, run for the board, saw how that turned out. And so it continues, golf all the time.

RCSC is a shadow of what Ek wants, and only her foresight is in play. How do you stop this megalomaniac? Get her gone, and find OUTSIDE leadership to come in. No passing the torch to her hand picked minion.

I truly trust there would be many to stand and deliver if given the chance.

CMartinez, May 25, 2020