Protesting.....Sun City.....Etc.

And again it is my hopes that this thread can be civil and without name calling and inclusive of all regardless of political party. Street Protesting has now been introduced to Sun City and Sun City West. We have seen what can happen in other communities as an unfortunate by-product of that activity (civil unrest, property destruction, undesireable elements coming from out of state etc). Is our senior community prepared to deal with those issues "IF" they were to occur? I was personally hoping that our community could continue to be in the back ground and not part of anything that could bring attention to us. Our community is comprised of senior folks most of whom do not care to get involved with stressful situations. Most do not have the ability to protect themselves much less their property and have no younger folks ready available to help out. We do not have an armed police force except for the occasional Sheriff Deputy patrol and the volunteer Posse is not equipped to handle civil unrest issues nor should they be. A retirement community is "easy pickins" for anyone who wants to have what you own because the bad guys know how helpless seniors can be at any given time. For those of you who don't sleep well at night start looking out your windows at night between midnite and 4 in the morning ...... watch for the strange vehicles, dark clothed individuals getting out and walking certain streets and become observant. In addition I believe we do have one or more statues etc that could be torn down and we certainly have many recreational facilities that could be defaced and torn apart. We have a lot of nice things that can attract the bad element.

 

GC, I guess I missed it -- can you provide when/where in SC/SCW there was street protesting? What were they protesting?

 

IC.........Sun City Independent, Wednesday June 24, 2020, front page right hand side "Protesters gather....".

 

Gary, I will be civil but I have strong opinions I speak which has a tenancy to upset people. That said, I am not sure which is worse, your paranoia of rioting seniors (really) or the First Amendment, maybe both.

Let us start with the protestors mentioned in the Independent. A small group were standing on a street corner In SCW protesting police brutality and support for Black Lives Matter, hardly a threatening group. Since they were on a sidewalk and not blocking traffic, a perfectly legal gathering and protected speech.
Gary now descents into the right wing playbook of undesirable elements from out of State a/k/a outside agitators.
Recent investigations by reputable sources have uncovered that the far out right wing has been the cause of rioting and property damage. Look for the Hawaiian shirts and you have found Boogaloo, basically neo-Nazis (trump’s group of really fine people), Proud Boys and other splinter wacko groups. Since we are a senior community I believe we could spot one of these clowns a mile away. So Gary “what if “ we have a perfectly legal street protest In S.C. or SCW with no property destruction, civil unrest or tearing down a Confederate statue that doesn’t exist, what will you say then? I will quote Rod Stewart about being arrested for inciting a peaceful riot.

Regarding statues, the only one I know of is the one at Lakeview of Del Webb with a child and I believe a dog, hardly something to incite violence unless a throng of W.C. Fields fans gets out of control. As for Confederate statues, I believe they belong in a museum not on outside public display. They represent history, yes, but they were also traitors to our country in a war that cost over 600,00 dead, certainly not something to celebrate. In my travels in Europe I do not recall the Klaus Barbie statue in Lyon, France or the Reinhardt Heydrich statue in Prague mostly because they don’t exist even though it is history. If you don’t know who they are, look it up.

Gary, turn off Fox News, OAN or TBN as it not healthy for children, plants or other living things. Remember Sam Adams was a degenerate drunk who incited rioting and property destruction through his really fine people, the Sons of Liberty. Don’t believe me, look it up. Peace brother.

 

GDV........Call it what you will...paranoia or anything else you want to name it but I prefer to call it a moment for serious thought. Unintended consequences can and do happen from actions from those with good intentions. All you have to do is open your eyes and ears as to what is going on and the way our world is changing on a daily basis. There are a lot of communities where protests have occurred and bad things happened to the residents. If you fail to see that then you have a real problem. If you think I'm concerned about "rioting seniors" then you really don't get it. Seniors are not the problem....it's the bad element that the ACTIVITY (right wing or left wing ) can bring with it. You can play games with words all you want publicly but you do know exactly what I mean and shame on you for trying to diminish the concern. It seems like you equate any content of any topic that you can't grasp into some sort of "right wing" political position and that is why you upset people. There are many people out there that just wants to try to help people in our community.....sorry you don't understand the concept.

 

Ahh -- the Independent article -- now I know what you are talking about GC. It never occurred to me that a gathering of a few retires in SCW to show support for the world wide protests currently occurring were the "street protests" you referred to. It's been my observation that the words one uses to describe something often discloses the speakers own feelings and biases. What I call a "show of support" you call a "street protest" and allude to it being harmful. Telling, perhaps... on both of us.

I don't see any of the fears you allude to as applicable to SC. Sun City probably has as much/little police support as any of the other 35-40 unincorporated/census designated "communities" in Maricopa County. We mostly don't need a strong police presence, but that doesn't mean it won't appear if needed. In the decades I've lived in SC there have been very few thieves working SC, mostly opportunistic because many Seniors are careless/easy marks. I know of no incidents of organized malicious threat -- the closest might have been when Peoria/SC were disputing paying school taxes and some properties were damaged by people from outside our walls.

I might raise an eyebrow of concern if something drastic happens in SC that triggers protesters to demonstrate against someone or some organization here in SC. But personally I'm more worried that overly partisan feelings damaging our community or a senile gun toting Barny Fife who decides someone walking their dog late at night (which I do often in the hot months of Summer) or pre-dawn (which I don't) is a threat and shoots someone. I have neighbors that have nothing better to do that watch out the window and hypothesize everything into something that's unsafe or a violation of law or the cc&rs, and several have tried to physically accost perpetrators.

IMHO, America currently is being overly influenced by people who "don't play well with others", people who only care about themselves, takers who are unconcerned for their impact on society overall. They are like unruly children that pull the pendulum of your family askew. Protests provide some of the energy that moves the pendulum back toward equilibrium and provides support for the necessary tough love.

 

IC....Thank you for your civil comments. I am sure that other communities that were negatively affected by protests didn't think negative activities would occur either. One of my points being why put our community in a position of potential concern needlessly when we are so badly equipped to handle a negative outcome. Each and every one of us have had our own experiences to draw from which is what in part forms our opinions and thoughts. I have seen several severe break ins of homes in the last several years. I have seen the stalking at night of the street that i live on. So my point of reference may be a little different than yours and others reading this. People can certainly do as they wish to include that my thoughts are crazy. Let us all hope that is the the case.......but if not at least I have tried to give the edge to some that could make a difference in their own personal out come if the worst were to happen. Remember that we still have an election to get through and regardless who the winners are its going to be a very difficult time for everyone.

 

GC I know exactly what you are doing and it is two pronged, making people scared, telling them whose responsible and creating situations where there are none, sort of like proposing solutions to problems that don’t exist, i.e., voter fraud for one. I am not diminishing your concern, I am calling it out. You are blowing dog whistles where there are no dogs or is it really about “those people?”

Have unpleasant events happened recently, it is true but nearly all protests have been peaceful. There have been ugly incidents but that was for a short while. The anthropologist Desmond Morris has written that he is amazed that the populations of cities as large and as close living conditions are, we do live in relative peace an harmony.
You want to see unintended consequences, look to the lack of leadership at the highest level of State and national government, that is where destruction and ruin is happening on a grand scale.

I spent five years on the RCSC Board trying to make S.C. better and working with others which I have a list of accomplishments. What did you accomplish in your few months on the Board? Facts are not biased and yes I do basically piss people off but that seems to be my lot in life. I spent a career thinking up scenarios of the worst possible situation and was well paid for it, I don’t that anymore because there is not a reason and the pay is terrible.

Mama never told me there would be days like these, strange days indeed mama.
John Lennon

 

GDV...............It's impossible to have a rational and civil conversation with you without suspicions controlling your mind and you trying to create or discover some hidden motive or agenda by the other party in the discussion. That really is a sickness on your part. It's interesting how you contradict yourself and admit that the reasons for my concerns have merit.. And then the truth gets out and everything is ultimately about you and what you believe to be some cherished list of accomplishments by you while you were on the board. You need to get over yourself and start listening to what you are saying. There certainly appears to be some hidden fear or lack of sincerity on your part due to continually hiding behind a name other than what you are known by. You exhibited the same issue by purposely staying anonymous to RCSC members when visiting the rec centers while you were on the board "because you thought you could hear the real truth from RCSC members if they did not know you were a member of the board". We have discussed that topic personally and in public at a candidate forum so you know exactly what I am talking about. To me it appears you have a trust issue with almost everyone which may have something to do with your attitude to me and my posting. Admitting that you piss people off and accepting that as your lot in life is sad or are you actually saying that you are a jerk and you like it. Peace brother.

 

How come everyone seems to know who everyone else is here except me? But that is besside the point. I see nothing wrong with being vigilant around here (Sun City for me) late at night. I discovered a guy lurking behind some cars when I was walking the dog late. I told him to get the F out of there and he ran off. However to feel that we are in any danger of antifa types coming bursting through our doors and windows or spray painting BLACK LIVES MATTER on our homes is (opinion) absurd. They might do something in Phoenix, or even (a long stretch) Glendale but this idea that there are roving gangs of paid troublemakers cruising the streets of Sun City is about two steps from shouting FIRE in a movie theater. I once attended a demonstration in SCW (Feb 8, 2017) where, supposedly Trent Frank (remember him?) was supposed to speak. He chickened out but about 50 to 75 of us seniors showed up at the Welcome To SCW Center (or whatever). The employees were so freaked out they called the sheriff, who showed up with about 8 of their big SUV cruisers and almost out numbered the protestors. They then set up a counting system to make sure that no more than 47 (or whatever) people were in the place at the same time. Two folks left, two more got in. No molotov cocktails, no spray paint, just a bunch of somewhat pissed off seniors. If I am wrong GC, feel free to say you told me so, but I doubt anything worse than that will happen. Oh yes, if any statues are going to be torn down they are likely to be one or both of the Del Webb statues around. He was after all a capitalist, mafia, land speculator who just happens to have built the home I live in, so he is cool with me.

 

Carptrash.........I hope you are right....but until our current national issues are reckoned with we should not sweep under the rug what we think are non-issues. That approach is what got us where we are today. There are too many variables. If someone had told us a year ago what we would be facing today we would have told them they were crazy. I am satisfied with my efforts regardless what anyone else thinks. Thanks for your input.

 

Gary it's the Right wing causing the destruction in most cases Good Ole White Trumpers.

 

Exactly where are we today? I think that depends greatly on who you are, what news you follow, whether you buy into the lies and half truths our "leaders" feed us each day, be it national, state local, or RCSC level. Everyone has an agenda, many have a desire for wealth and power and most of all, the intention of "winning" what ever contest they think we're in. The powerful take advantage of the weak and those choosing not to participate at all get whatever spoils they can.

"Where we are today" is the result of ignoring issues. We as a country have kicked the can of racism down the road for 3 centuries. Over the past 4 decades we have allowed partisanship politics to systematically divide our Country to a point that may be unrecoverable. For the past 3+ years we have watched our government piss off and isolate us from our allies and neighbors, watched it retreat from arms alliances that help stabilize the world's arms races, watched it pull back regulations that were the beginnings of a response to the climate crisis that threatens to change life on earth as we know it. You can argue doing those things was a good or bad move, but you can't deny it has happened if you are honest and rational. And finally, for the past 8-months, we've watched our government first pretend the emerging pandemic wasn't real. When they couldn't deny it any longer, they flubbed a response and, realizing they screwed up, simply abdicated responsibility to States and local officials instead of taking the traditional lead the feds have always taken in past disasters. Effectively, they passed the football to the waterboys.

So, exactly, where are we? IMHO, we're in deeper s**t than most realize, particularly if our Federal, State, and local leaders don't get the balls to mandate some things that will slow the pandemic soon. The majority of the Western World has gotten it under control, it's no secret how they did it. We haven't because our leadership didn't want to look bad. Fussing over what we should have done isn't helpful. Doing something now is critical. Our economy is at significant risk of tanking big time and the resulting depression may possibly devastate our country. You can believe the lies the Administration is spewing or you can look at the facts. For me the head in the sand, rose colored glasses, following the pied piper off the cliff doesn't work. We all need to break rank and regroup -- let the piper fall off the cliff, tell our elected officials if they continue following the piper they will be out of a job soon!

And if we don't? Well then, GC, is the time you really need to worry about thieves, lawlessness, strangers threatening your safety, etc -- cause then there will be riots, your Social Security will be in jeopardy, you safety will be threatened. Read about life during the Great Depression, the famines in Europe, etc. -- you'll get the idea.

 

Really well said IC. Let's dig a touch deeper to help Gary through the malaise of lawlessness sweeping the nation. It has been argued/stated: "we are the greatest country on earth." It is often said the president of the USA is the most powerful man in the world. I have no interest in debating either premise, but let's assume both are as close to true statements as you can get. If we start there, then someone way smarter than me has to explain the following: How is it with a little over 4% of the world's population, we have 25% of the confirmed cases and 25% of the worlds covid19 related deaths? How is that even remotely possible given the two assumptions posted above?

Taking it out even further and using the presidents own phase; how come shithole countries are doing way better than us in dealing with the pandemic? Why are European countries cases subsiding when ours are exploding? God, so many questions, so few answers eh?

To be blunt, it isn't the fact that George Soros is sending bus loads of antifa agitators around the country (even though there is little or no proof other than on conspiracy websites and in trump's head), that keeps me awake at night. It is more the fact we have a president who doesn't give a damn 125,000 people have died because he elected to slow-walk addressing the pandemic out of the gate and even today pretends he has solved/cured the nightmare we are trapped in. Hell, even the republican governor's who opened early to appease him are trying to stop the hemorrhaging. Trump on the other hand has one fixation...to get re-elected.

It's just freaking frightening to me so many have bought into the logic that 200,000 people dead by Oct is acceptable. It's not but that is exactly where we will be. To make matters worse, every expert out there is telling us the second wave that hits this fall could well be more crushing than the first one. We may never get back to "normal." Antifa thugs may be the least of our problems. Unfortunately, as we have watched over the last three years, the trump playbook is to point to another shiny object and hope we become enamored with it. Sorry Gary, most of us in this country are just play tired of being lied to and led down a path that may well be as IC pointed out; unrecoverable.

 

IC....I do not disagree with the essence of your summation. I am glad that you chose to be specific and direct. If viewers have a problem with my original posting regarding Sun City then they should have a field with your final analysis. My private and personal actions follow preparation for the possible events you have described. Better safe than sorry.

 

GC might be more right than many of us like to imagine. I went out to give my dog his final chance last night and in the alley . . . .....

 

That's good Carptrash........I wish I would have thought of that! LOL. Seriously though I saw the exact same individual crawling down my street at about 2 this morning and I think there were several more slinking in and out of the neighbors bushes. I did call the Sheriffs department to make the report but they said they had been "defunded" and that I would have to handle the situation myself........and then it happened.....I WOKE UP!

 

Well we need to keep our guns close and loaded at all times. And always remember that there are pizza delivery guys out there too. And dog walkers and this little old lady who goes trotting down the street (not on the sidewalk) at all times of day and night. And wait, I don't have a gun !

 

Is it me or is this a staged photo because it sure looks it. How old is the fake individual? Can you find the clue? The timeline does not work.

GC, I will respond to your last post later and I will bring more facts to the table.

Let facts be submitted to a candid world......
Declaration of Independence

 

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