Is the RCSC Long Range Planning Committee now a charade?

CM, you may be correct about the vacant lot down at 99th and Olive but that old devil of parking crops up.

You look at the parcel of property and then visualize an auditorium that seats , say 425 people, the
backstage area, dressing rooms, costume storage, foyer, required bathrooms, and parking, I personally think it will not pass muster.

I’m not trying to be a putz here, but since Sun City has prescribed boundaries, we have an incredible lack of space or raw property as it is known, we are essentially boxed in.

True, I believe the Grand property purchase was a good decision. I do not believe that Dan “Fredo” Schroeder was in line ramming his lapidary/silver club through as a non LRP reviewed club for space. Then there is the conflict of interest he had as his wife was a heavy in the club when he did this. He also has some black marks in front of his name for other “funny business” he has done as a Director.

Then there is Vintage Vehicles , which the word around campfire is that the president of the club has Dan in his pocket, golfing buddy and all.

Having grown up in the upper Midwest, even I am appalled at what has happened and that is saying a lot.

No problem CM on previous posts here. I am a great defender of the First Amendment and you did nothing to ruffle my Bolshevik feathers. A defender of the Second Amendment, not so much as there is no right to own a weapon. That went away in 1920. Happy to supply Constitutional references and the Founding Fathers intent.

Have fun storming the Board Room.

 

Not big deal, but my recollection from the day was the whole Fairway (ie, both halves) project came in considerably over budget. Am I remembering it wrong?

 

My recollection of Fairway was a projected 18 million and ultimately came in at 16.2 million. It was a lengthy project (4 to 5 years) because they didn't have the cash in hand so they had to do it in two segments.

Don't waste your breath, brain cells or energy trying to reposition the theater. The board has turned it all over to management and they will present a plan in December of 2020 (or so says the agenda for the meeting next Monday). Given past time lines, that will most likely be pushed well into 2021. The Grand Ave project will suck more money out of PIF funds and stuff will just keep getting shoved back.

The Long Range Planning committee has presented a goals and objectives plan to the board. It is based on the RCSC refocusing on the technological needs we will be facing. In conjunction, we are asking for future decisions to be made based on data. The only way to do that is to be able to accumulate information on clubs, events and venue usage that is collected electronically. A former board member who is part of the committee now and was a former member of it said 12 year ago the committee was focused on IT. Yet today we still haven't even fixed the wifi problems we have. No one is ever held accountable.

We spent time talking about better reach on information from potential buyers and current members. Obviously surveys are the best tool, and with good technology it becomes easier. I made the foolish suggestion (said with a smirk) the RCSC should consider a technology committee. Don't hold your breath.

In my humble opinion, the RCSC should be building and funding a technology driven system for access to all amenity areas that provide security, monitoring and information gathering capabilities. It isn't just having scanners for clubs, but owning the hardware and software that drives it all. In Sun City West they can gain access via their phone app. It's the tip of the iceberg and we aren't anywhere near even thinking about climbing on. The tragedy is the research we provided for our goals and objectives was all based on data gathered regarding trends expected by the next generation of home buyers.

Building a long range, strategic plan would be so much better than what we are doing. After twelve years of drowning the community in golf projects, we now find ourselves behind the 8 ball and playing catch-up. The best thing the RCSC could do would be to adopt our goals and objectives and then immediately begin to figure out what they need do to incorporate technology into the community as we prepare for the future.

We'll see.

 

I will say again, that any data capture must be done independent of the GM/BOD. It keeps the data collection honest and not privy to either the BOD or GM before the results are made public.

Any new technology initiative must also include cameras in all Sun City locations that are of the highest quality. No blurry cameras and it must maintain history for at least 30 days.

Neither the BOD or the GM should ever have access to the data gathering technology other than to verify that data gathering is on going. They should have the ability to query the administrator of the data gathering technology for camera videos when questions arise concerning security. We now live in a world where cameras are everywhere, except Sun City.

If the BOD/GM are given access to the technology for anything other than reports, then the results will most likely be skewed the way the BOD/GM want. them. In my eyes, the BOD/GM have an obligation to react to the findings of any data gathering and NOT control it.
There is nothing that cannot be tracked with the correct technology from a company like an IBM and or others.

Data is important and cameras are important - but only if they are controlled by an outside entity - not the BOD/GM.

 

I believe there are cameras in the BOD Room where all the committees meet. They were installed for the safety of the BOD some time back. Not sure if they are just video or audio, too.

 

You might be correct, but I am confused as to “both halves.” Didn’t go out much as I was employed at the time. I went to the town hall with my neighbor showing architect’s rendering and a few times during construction on the way home from work. Seemed like one big project to me.

 

Actually, I believe Jan stated this on several occasions. Evidently she has a non exclusive relationship with the truth.

 

Sorry, in my humble opinion, we don't really need to have an outside company oversee them. The goal is to build a sustainable process where we are able to collect, contain and control the flow of information and data we use to make decisions. If it's a matter of trust, then the board needs to work on gaining that trust back. We are more focused on getting a workable structure in place. Personally i would be a fan of publishing the data collected for public consumption, it becomes a catalyst for struggling clubs to grow their numbers at best, or at worst to understand why their dedicated space may be in jeopardy.

That alone will be a massive undertaking. Not because it's that difficult, but because there is some cost, but more importantly it is a paradigm shift in how we think and act. The bigger problem will be to pursue this will mean the board takes a more hands-on approach to running the organization. The challenge, given they are dishing off their authority to management at a pace never seen before, makes all of this daunting.

You will be able to follow along over the next three board meetings if the board is sincere or just playing the game and placating the committee. The goals and objectives proposal we made are specific in dates and data we want/need. Most of you know all the committee can do is make these kinds of recommendations. Now the ball is in the boards court and has to play out in front of the maddening crowd. Three readings and open debate and votes will tell us where they stand.

So i am clear, never having been called pragmatic much in life, i am becoming more so as i age. While some of us reading and writing this stuff think it matters, most residents are oblivious to virtually all of it. They are blind to the inside workings of the the RCSC, they only care if their pool is open, the gym equipment is clean, if their club room is adequate, and how much their lot assessment (rec card fees) go up. The rest is minutia. That's why i constantly remind myself, on a scale of 1 to 10, nothing that happens in Sun City is more than a 1.

Damn, serenity is becoming less illusive.

 

My recollection is originally Fairway was proposed as a single phase project for something like 12-mil. After architects were consulted it became evident they had to do the tear-down/rebuild. So phases were proposed (ie, first half, second half) and the costs grew. I trust BP's recollection more than my own about the actual numbers, but I'm pretty sure the community was aghast at whatever it was since many were thinking renovation, not scrap and build new. People were afraid their assessments would go up, some said it was a Phase I problem and Phase II an III shouldn't have to pay for it, etc. It was a crazy time, tempers were pretty hot on many fronts as I recall. Besides Fairway, the roof collapse at Sundial insurance payment was uncertain, PIF was created, ARS was stirring the pot, etc.

 

Brings a smile to my face IC, just thinking about how dumpy the old Fairway Center was. When it opened in 1962, it was called Town Hall and was the envy of the community. 50 years later, some of those old buildings were little more than Quonset huts. Calling something quaint only goes so far.

You are right, the idea we would plow 15 million plus into Phase 1 was absurd to some North of Grand. Hell, some living south of Grand avenue were moaning. The reality was it was just the shot in the arm we needed to revitalize phase 1. All of the whining was the exact reason the PIF was and still is the best answer to our challenges. Expecting residents to support projects they may never use with a massive assessment is ludicrous.

The $750,000 threshold for indebtedness was put in the documents to insure we couldn’t go in debt without a vote of the residents. When they pay cash for projects, there is no indebtedness, hence, no vote. It was genius. The downside is the board/GM make those decisions without the input of the community.

It was why i voted against dumping the long range planning committee while on the board. Well after the fact, i understand why the GM wanted it. Easily, one of the dumbest actions ever taken by the board. Easily.

 

In the interim, BP, couldn’t you take it into your own hands and have an IT planning committee of a few people within the long range planning committee? Not sure how you work there but it could be a nudge to the BOD.

 

An IT planning committee maybe beneficial, but unless the BOD/GM listens to the recommendations of the LRPC and any IT committee from within the LRPC it will be a useless exercise.

The reason I suggest an independent outside company to handle all things technology is that out current IT department, the BOD, and the GM have done nothing in the past 10 to 12 years to foster a complete and futuristic WiFi system and technology department. The data that has been lost over the past 10 to 12 years is astounding and can never be reproduced.

An outside organization like Anderson Technologies, IBM, Cisco should be commissioned to look at the use (or lack thereof) of technology in Sun City and develop a technology and WiFi plan to take us at least 10 years in to the future. Our current it department has shown they are incapable of doing that. Our board has shown they are incapable of doing that. The GM and staff has shown they are incapable of doing that.

If we leave this in the hands of the current IT department, BOD, and GM, we will be no better off in 10 years than we are now. In fact, if things do not go the way the GM would like them, there will probably be politicians involved again as they were with the HB and SB's.

The BOD has signed off for the next 2 months, so any action on technology will be delayed for another 2 months. Completely unacceptable.

Does the LRPC take the next 2 months off? Does the GM and staff take the next 2 months off? Do the residents of Sun City take the next 2 months off? Does Sun City shut down for the next 2 months? I definitely don't understand the BOD taking 2 months off because it is hot. They don't hold their meetings outside.

Where are the statistics that show the number of residents remaining in Sun City for the summer? Is it someones guess? How is that information gathered? Again, another area where technology would be able to answer these questions.

Who actually counts the number of participants at the board meetings? Is it done by pencil and paper? Counting the number of individuals who have signed up to speak? Technology could answer all these questions, yet out IT department, BOD, and GM have shown absolutely no interest in getting into the 21sr century with regard to technology and WiFi.

The LRPC should work hand in hand with outside agencies to develop, install, and maintain a current IT department and WiFi system.

Short of that we are doomed to continue as we are for the next 10 to 20 years.

I'm keeping my eyes and ears open and not trusting that the BOD and GM have our best interests at heart. They have proven over the past years that the residents opinions do not matter.
They have stifled community involvement and changed by laws and other documents to suit their needs. How can anyone trust that the LRPC recommendations will make a difference?

 

That's kind of the plan C. That said, the reality is there are people living in Sun City with mad tech skills that know what they are talking about.This is one of those areas where Sun City has lost its footing. When the community was resident reliant they sought out those living here to work in concert with the board. Once we evolved to a management driven organization, committee's of community experts became expendable. The more you look like the workhorse that knows/does it all, the more likely the board is to let you do it all. Wrong headed thinking.

I think SCR is spot on. It doesn't matter how or who we bring to the table to get us on track if the end game is they don't listen. We lived through years of having someone overseeing our building projects who knew little. Now we have massive shortfalls in technology where we were excited by the prospect of getting our internet speed up to a 100megs is laughable. That's so yesterdays speed and then they want to do it by 2020. If the last board meeting didn't tell you anything else, that exchange regarding our upgrades should scream it all to you.

We went to dinner Sunday with some folks who are way more technology oriented than i am. We talked about our how far behind we were and specifically about the ticketing process. I was stunned at how sloppy the presentation was regarding the coming changes in ticketing and online sales. There was no information regarding what vendor they were using. There was no information whether they had put it out for bid. There were numbers about how much more expensive tickets would be due to the on-line sales.

As we talked, they told me they were in fact using the same vendor that Sun City West uses for their ticket sales at one of their club events. The cost was marginal at best. Certainly nowhere in the neighborhood of what the RCSC was proposing. I am trying to get information from board members how involved they were in this decision making our if management just said, here's what it will cost. I'll keep you posted.

Then we talked about how one of the clubs they belong to has integrated monitor sign-up via the internet using a free program. It was staggering how well it was received. It is so long past time for the clubs and the RCSC to be fully compatible with their computer systems, accounting and information sharing, and yet we are virtually nowhere with it.

If the board does nothing else the rest of the year, they need to get people who know what they are talking about when it comes to technology and beging to get their head around what need be done. sadly, we all get excited about the potential for 100 megs of download speed.

 

First meeting back of the long range planning committee after the summer break. I was trying to find my serenity thread because today was a test. If i were to grade myself on the meeting, i would get an F. Ouch. I have no patience for what is going on. I refuse to sit and waste my time pretending I/we can make a difference. I was within a breath of walking out and frankly some in the room i am sure would have liked that.

I never get involved so i can sit passively by. I told myself long ago if i volunteered for things, i would only stay if it was fun and i could impact outcomes. Hours after the meeting, i see little reason to hang on.

My serenity is too damned important, at least to me.

 

So sorry hear things are remaining the same old, same old. Based upon what you are writing, the outcomes are predictable and no or little change can be expected. Do not place your serenity at risk, are you sure this is a hopeless cause? Could sleeping on it produce additional ideas for a more productive outcome?

What a shame to have talent willing to commit to improve the processes and leave the participants desiring to walk away. Good job Bill, you always give 110% and if your input is not valued, it is a loss for the group and the RCSC.

 

Thanks Carole, kind words. The one thing you quickly learn from our history is no one person matters all that much. It is always the sum total collective effort by the many, not the individual.

I haven't quit yet. Going to coffee with Ben and chatting. The potential to accomplish so much on that committee might be worth the pain. Think about it in these terms: The first 20 years of PIF we have collected roughly 100 million dollars. We elected (management and the board) to put something less than half of it in a game that is struggling to survive. The stats on golf are down, both locally and around the country. Worse yet, the next generation of home buyers is even less interested in the game.

Here's where it gets good: The next 20 years we will collect roughly 150 million dollars. What we have pointedly argued is decisions on how to spend it should be fact-based. Real data collected through the use of technology. As we pressed this, the response by management has been to increase wifi capacity to 100 megs in the next year. We pushed for more and at yesterdays meeting, they pushed back. The chair and co-chair were in agreement with our proposal (made over the summer and committee ratified by email) until the management team saw it and said hell no.

You know my feelings on how this works. The GM works for the board, not the other way around. Board members always get testy when i push them on this, but so be it. Until i see them pushing back, it still just the same old crap.

 

Seems ugly. I like the idea of you (BP) being out there, fighting the good fight, but don't stay for more than a day after you've decided that it is not worth it. I think you'll do it well, but years ago I invented this little mantra, 'If something is not worth doing is it worth doing well?" and it sounds a bit as if that's where you are.

 

It's how i function. If i can't do it well, it just don't do it. Always circles back to when i sobered up and the big book: "half measures availed us nothing. The downside is there is a crap load of stuff i don't do. Which is fine too.

 

Go out and keep the directors bristling. Someone has to get through to the Board of Directors they are to LEAD, not follow!!! They are called the board of directors for a reason, to direct the actions of the GM and the management team. Until such time the board is directing the actions of the RCSC, it will always feel futile.

You have always been a great leader Bill, it is one of many outstanding qualities you possess. If any one has any idea as to how to redirect this ship in the correct direction it is you. It is not up to the GM and the management team to say "No", not their decision to make.

 

Again, you are too kind Carole. I quit tilting at windmills long ago. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see how much i piss off board members when i chide them about being the GM's puppets. They always tell me that's not the case, but the things we decide as a committee often get shot down once management sees what we are proposing. I have no problem with a GM with strong opinions as long as the board is equally firm. Sorry but i've yet to see that be the case.
I always push the history because those that came before us, that built such an amazing community, did it collectively. They weren't led around by a nose ring, but forcefully fought for the things they believed were right for the community. As brilliant as John Meeker was, and as much as he felt incorporation was right for Sun City, the community at large said hell no. Teachable moments are everywhere, the problem is when people are too stubborn to learn from them, you know the outcome.