God Lord; Now What?

Discussion in 'Sun City General Discussions' started by BPearson, May 13, 2020.

  1. aggie

    aggie Well-Known Member

    Depends on whether or not your canine is in the vulnerable dog category.
     
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  2. carptrash

    carptrash Active Member

    Just back from the dog park and 1. it is opened, 2. the parking lot cement stoppers (or whatever) have been painted bright yellow and 3. two new maybe 12' x 12' shade "umbrellas" have been added. looks nice.
     
  3. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    I have reread the releases a couple of times from the RCSC and am still confused. Originally they told us they were reopening on Tuesday. In the body of the release it told us those over 65 and/or with physical conditions should stay home. On Weds they sent out a clarification saying those over 65 even with physical conditions could use the facilities, they were merely recommendations. However, if you were doing so at your own peril. So far, so good.

    Where i am befuddled is while they announced the opening, they also said club presidents would be contacted as to the safety measures they would need to take to reopen clubs. I know for lawn bowling they are in discussions with what need be done to start "club bowling." Does that mean that i can go roll bowls by myself away from the maddening crowd? For pickleball, i know some folks went and hit balls back and forth yesterday as single players (1 person per each side of the net). For the PB club to reopen, do they need to agree to rules that are in compliance with phase 1 before they can open as a club?

    Maybe i am just not as bright as some, but it seems to me clarity is hardly clear. Said before, i am fine with whatever rules they set, i just wish they were more clear in what they actually were saying. Curious carp; were there hand sanitizing stations set up for people as they entered Duffeeland? Part of the problem with lawn bowling was they announced the opening and then they decided to contact the presidents. Logic would have been to contact the clubs well ahead of the reopening and had this stuff ironed out. Again, maybe that is just my convoluted way of looking at problems.

    Any and all clarifications from the RCSC would be appreciated.
     
  4. IndependentCynic

    IndependentCynic Active Member

    Inquiring minds would ask...

    Were the RCSC Phase I mandates being followed at the DP?
    • Use of hand sanitizer required upon entry.
    • Sanitation protocols include sanitization of equipment, tools, workstations, chairs, stools, seating, tables, pens/pencils and anything handled by more than one person prior to use by each Cardholder.
    • Members must not use equipment that is positioned within six (6) feet of another piece of equipment until the adjacent equipment is not in use.
    If so, who was doing all the wiping down of tables, chairs, benches, water jugs, etc?

    Was anyone enforcing compliance?

    Was anyone wearing a mask (which I understand isn't a requirement)?
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2020
  5. Say What

    Say What Active Member

    I went and worked out at fareway yesterday afternoon it is mandatory that you wear a face mask anywhere in the fitness center even when you're working out no exceptions whatsoever and they had employees wiping down machines and everything was spaced in the coordinate cordance and BP I have a question has anyone ever tossed the idea of combination lawn bowling and croquet I have about 40 people that would be interested in a croquet club and the lawn bowling Green's would be perfect for both
     
  6. Enquirer

    Enquirer Member

    The best part is that after the RCSC said they were open, and after Club presidents were asked for their input, many cardholders were advised by RCSC facility staff that before the original message went out, the RCSC had decided that specific clubs would not be permitted to open in Phase 1.

    If they had decided this in advance why did they not let these clubs know this in their original email?
     
  7. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    All good questions E. Sadly we will never get or hear answers to those questions and many others. It's not the way the game is played these days. Card holders, that's all we are. Here's my take: There's been lots of whining about refunds or credits for down time. I think it's silly. We live here, we pay for the amenities. The RCSC has the job of running them for us. They had no choice but to close them. So far so good.

    The rub for me is the day they shut them down was the day they should have begun making plans on the reopening. Let's be honest, there was falloff on the amount of work that was done while we were closed. Everyone kept getting paid (a good thing), but everyone knew the day would come when we would be allowed to reopen. That should have been job one for each and every employee, because management should have understood reopening was going to be a massive undertaking. Instead it looks like the classic clusterflock with a hurried scramble to throw something/anything together. I'm hearing stories of clubs submitting their plans to reopen and being told there's no way they can get to them for approval without long waits.

    Come on guys, we deserve better than this. BTW, Say What, sign the petition for a new croquet club, think you only need 25 or 50 signatures. I'm sure between the lawn bowling greens and the putting greens the employees that work their asses off would love to have someone sticking stakes and wire hoops into them on a daily basis.
     
  8. IndependentCynic

    IndependentCynic Active Member

    Of course, you know full well that the whole attitude of the BOD and GM is not that they are running things FOR US. If they were they would be more open, would involve the members more in planning, would have embraced T33 as more inclusive, etc. Instead they have erected a veritable wall between the members and the CORPORATION. They, and a lot of members, have drunk the kool-aid to believe that the wall is necessary to "protect" the corporation somehow -- and they've been doing so for so long they now believe it's unquestioningly necessary. Sadly, like a child raised in an oppressive minimally collaborative environment, there's a good chance of eventual revolt because they haven't been heard nor respected.

    Of course it's massive... and the risks are high, both to the members and the RCSC. But, given the "we know best" last couple decades of the RCSC's (mostly) autocratic management style, it should be no surprise they think they know best about reopening... and hey, since they're mostly conservatives, they modeled it after Trump's plan... rush to be the first SC to reopen, abdicate as much as possible to the governor's (ie, club presidents) and just assume they would make it work, like it it or not. I guess some clubs run that way too, but certainly not all, maybe not even most. What I know from the clubs I have belonged to is the RCSC only thinks they know the details of the club, but in fact their knowledge is often dated or was in fact never true. You always make better decisions by listening to a variety of diverse inputs... not by listening to just the loudest ones and those with a parochial agenda.

    What I'm hearing is a lot of clubs don't like it, have no resources (manpower/budget) to make it happen, were give only a day or two's notice to tell the RCSC when they would reopen based on the phase 1-3 published details -- and thus, like all animals surprised and feeling threatened, they've hunkered down, covered up, and aren't reopening for now. Hell, some club boards have snowbird officers who have sheltered out of SC and aren't even reachable to make decisions. Other clubs simply said ok, we're open and everyone fend for themselves. The "rush to reopen" only serves those who seem oblivious to/don't believe there is a risk that they could die. I suppose the cold truth is the RCSC Corporation doesn't necessarily care -- someone dies, their property is sold, the Corporation collects their $3500 plus fees and moves on. The more the merrier?
     
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  9. carptrash

    carptrash Active Member

    During the shutdown two new shade structures were erected at Duffeeland, it seems to me totally done without any input from the Dog Park Club or any other users. One is fine but the other pretty much just shades a couple of sidewalks. Which is useless. The point of shade (opinion) is to allow folks to SIT in it. I will check with the Club to see if they were asked, since they do represent the Park users, but I am not expecting to hear that they had input.
     
  10. Say What

    Say What Active Member

    Letting clubs know was done totally wrong. Opening up the day after the meeting without notifying every club president, supplying them with material in hand and telling them nothing showed how unorganized the decision making was. They should have waited at least 7-10 days to get this in place. The workers did a great job while closed and get an A and communication gets an F. Nobody knew what page they were on which demonstrated a complete weakness.

    BP, I don't think the small holes would even be noticed by anyone.
     
  11. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    I appreciate the candor SW. The workers have done well, management or whomever is writing their press releases has struggled. Knowing how the RCSC is run, i can name a name, but why bother. Lots of qualified people there but everything runs top down. This entire reopening should have been programed a month back with clubs working in concert so they were ready. As you noted, they sent off the notice we were opening and then contacted some of the officers. Backasswords IMHO.

    The croquet thing has been done before a couple of times around the country. Abysmal failures. Like a putting surface, the smoother they are the better the play. The greens where they tried croquet ultimately ended up tearing them up. The wire wickets are less a problem than the wooden stakes but the repetitive use eventually destroys the roll of the bowl.
     
  12. carptrash

    carptrash Active Member

    I just got back from Duffeeland Dog Park. Between yesterday and today some crew has removed the two dozen or so chairs that dotted the park. I had already decided to not use them, but that they disappeared like this reminds me again what a rushed job this opening up was. The Club, again, was not notified, which should be a matter of routine. We don't expect them to listen to the clubs but they could at least pretend. Perhaps this is what one gets when we live in a republic and not a democracy.
     
  13. IndependentCynic

    IndependentCynic Active Member

    The problem is not democracy versus republic, they both are representative forms of government. The problem is the RCSC autocracy we the electorate (aka members) have allowed to develop by our non-involvement. We who fiddled while Rome burned!
     
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  14. carptrash

    carptrash Active Member

    Yes, well Rome was neither a republic nor a democracy then.
     
  15. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    We were built on a system of self-governance. It was all about creating a sense of community and buy-in as residents assumed not only ownership of their homes but also the organizations that shaped the community into what it was to become. Worked for better than 40 years; until the RCSC decided control from within was more important than a broad brush approach. Losing sight of the big picture, the RCSC became more inline with corporate thinking, than community focused. The big brother mentality kicked in, as so often does in organizations, and the membership found themselves on the outside looking in.

    Sadly, it's more the way the boomer generation thinks. The old guard, the greatest generation, were willing to get involved and take ownership. The boomers were happy to give it away. The mantra, let some one else do it, allowed the RCSC to do as they pleased. For better or worse, that's where we are stuck. So much potential, so little push back.
     
  16. CMartinez

    CMartinez Well-Known Member

    At what point do you push back? At the fake member meetings where no one has a voice? At the BOD directors meeting where the directors are led by their noses to the trough of EK? I truly believe there are many who are not happy with the way things are going, but like me, feel helpless to do anything. Yea, yea, run for the board, saw how that turned out. And so it continues, golf all the time.

    RCSC is a shadow of what Ek wants, and only her foresight is in play. How do you stop this megalomaniac? Get her gone, and find OUTSIDE leadership to come in. No passing the torch to her hand picked minion.

    I truly trust there would be many to stand and deliver if given the chance.
     
  17. IndependentCynic

    IndependentCynic Active Member

    Sometimes you just have to instigate things to fail so you can fix them. In private industry we used to "create a crisis" -- ie, screw something up, publicize the hell out of it and do nothing to help fix it. How? Set traps, claim you didn't get the memo, don't do anything to avoid a looming problem. Then do anything you can to piss the BOD/management off -- really angry people almost always make mistakes that make matters worse. Then make a huge issue of not allowing proxy voting at member meetings -- if the US Congress can do it why can't we, etc. Push their buttons. Keep stirring up the members whenever possible. I know these all seem counter to "working together" and enjoying retirement, but how has not rocking the boat worked so far?
     
  18. CMartinez

    CMartinez Well-Known Member

    IC, riling up the membership is the problem, they have lost interest due to the way the RCSC is running things. I do not feel they don't care as much as they feel they have no control in getting anything done. Look at the way the COVID thing was handled, not one member was involved in the decision process, purely from the top down. There were comments in the local paper as to how extreme this all felt be still nothing they could do.

    What is your suggestion for getting the membership involved. We can't rent any venue to have a member gathering as it is against the rules to meet against the RCSC as they perceive it. The membership is hamstrung until such time we get to have a voice, and right now, we haven't got one.
     
  19. aggie

    aggie Well-Known Member

    If we cardholders were only concerned with how financially secure the RCSC is being maintained, we don't have much complaint about how management is carrying out their objective. The lack of communication, tact in many cases and preferential treatment for some sports/clubs does cause members to feel unimportant. Use the YouTube technology to give us updates. We have heard so little over the past 2 months.

    Where are the proposed drawings for Phase 2 of Grand? Has the Mountain View Committee met over the past few months? What plans have been suggested? Who is being appointed to the BOD? What will the penalties be for not following the COVID 19 Guidelines at the RCSC facilities? Who will enforce them? Why are the golf course buildings taking priority over the long requested softball club facility? So little information.....
     
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  20. SCR

    SCR Active Member

    Unfortunately, the only thing that is ever going to get the membership involved at this point is an RCSC charge/fee to all members that seriously affects their pocketbooks.
    Something like increasing yearly RCSC dues by 2 or 3 times for all members. Charging for entertainment at the Sunbowl. A one time fee (in the hundreds) to pay for the 2 month closure of all RCSC facilities and the installation of temporary fencing. Doubling club fees. Anything and everything except golf.

    The only thing that motivates people to get involved is money out of their pocket.
     

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