URGENT UPDATE ON SUN CITY LIBRARIES

Dear Miss Hippie,
I understand. I too lost my parents here. You just do the best you can each day, and give the rest to God! Bless you.

 

It's Josie Eileen, and my folks have been gone for a long time. God bless you as well. After Bill gave out my name and just in general, I don't care about that anymore. I have been in contact with the admin to try and find out how to change it, as starting a new account is not as easy as you would think when you have an existing one. The issue I have with Sun City goes back a while. It has nothing to do with the people who live here and everything to do with BOD, mgmt, hoa, and rcsc and a lot of other entities within these walls and they are from personal experiences. I doubt you will see another showing like yesterday. Books are important to our generation, and they have been banned across the country far too often. A lot of the other issues stem from power trips.

 

HH, don’t remember which thread you posted about me saying Anne of Cleavage. So I will tell you that it was both a play on words from a historical figure, Anne of Cleves, a wife of Henry VIII and Anne Randall Stewart, who was Playmate of the Month May, 1967 in Playboy magazine. She actually visited the town I was attending university at the time. No I did not go to see her but one of my roommates did. Hope you now get the joke and she never complained about the comparison. BTW, that post was on the old Newszap site over 15 years ago.

 

It was posted on this site, by you Dave, in reference to her time on the board and the lawsuit. You said you spoke with her several times back in Illinois. You made it seem like you knew her. Maybe a conversation with your PCP about Prevagen would be prudent. Her husband of almost 60 years passed in 2023. I had a conversation with her around Christmas.

 

Maybe this will jog your memory Dave, (and folks wonder how we got here)

CM, I hate to be the bearer of bad news but wasn’t there something around 2013 or so where Fuerher Jan presented the Board in a work session a motion that basically outlawed proxies? Seems that she was worried that ANNE OF CLEAVAGE, BP, CM or your most obedient servant, Geoffrey, would actually secure enough proxies to ferment a revolution or at least an annual meeting. Not sure but somehow seems stuck in a neuron. Tell me if I am wrong.

Geoffrey de Villehardouin, Jul 9, 2020


I just read Aggie’s first listing names opposing the bill. Aside from ANNE OF CLEAVAGE and her gerbil patrol, one name did jump out at me, Jonathan Desaussles. For people who do not to go after interesting but not necessarily useful info, such as myself, Jonathan is one of the attorneys handling the plaintiffs case against the RCSC. To take it one step further, since Annie’s $40k she extracted from everyone but herself and this money ran out a long time ago, Jonathan is handling this on a contingency basis. This means if the plaintiffs don’t get paid, he doesn’t get paid. Even further, I believe, after hanging around law firms for over 30 years, the firm’s billable hours are around $400k and the suit is far from over. My guess is at least another two years, not counting appeals where the money really racks up. Oh, he is a partner in the firm which means he gets his cut first.

Agree with me CM as it is obvious that you know your way around the law without a paperback Black’s?

Geoffrey de Villehardouin, Apr 17, 2019


A few things here.

First, thanks for the thoughts Bill. It was a pleasure serving with you and Carole at the same time for two years. There always seems to be a “fly in the ointment” on the Board every year in management’s view, but having three at one time (the three amigos?) might have been a bit overwhelming in their view. CM and I being the legal beagles (no pun intended CM), taught management the beauty of legal research and supremacy of statute. Nice we have this forum to continue our truth telling. Facts are not biased.

As for the lawsuit, I realize that I seem to be hard on the fees and costs thing, but this quixotic venture by ANNE OF CLEAVAGE has cost RCSC and the insurance company a half a million dollars or more, which evidently we will never recover. Considering that Anne did this with other people’s money, including the attorneys who handled on a contingency basis, and her sole contribution was less than seven hundred dollars, yes I am a touch vindictive toward her.

One of the unseen costs to the members of RCSC is the amount of coverage, deductible and premium of the Director and Officers coverage. Having spent over thirty years associated with insurance and chair or co-chair or member of the insurance committee, I have seen the downside of this regarding coverage (finding a company who will provide coverage, deductible (has gone up over time) and premiums that have increased over the years. This lawsuit, in spite of winning, will stay with RCSC for several years from and insurance standpoint.

If any members wish to have a more in depth discussion on these points, track me down at a monthly Board meeting and I will be happy to expound on these points or check me out on U Tube replay as I ask embarrassing questions. Sorry I cannot make the monthly Monday meeting, have cardiac rehab then until April.

Truth dies in darkness.

Geoffrey de Villehardouin, Jan 4, 2020



Well, it is great to be back after letting surgeons slice and dice me again. Unfortunately their efforts were successful and I am back with my colorful spin on everything.
I appreciate Carole's update on the lawsuit and her spot on assessment of the clowns that pass for our legislative representatives. 3rdGen appears to be a touch uninformed as to the hijinks between the upper crust of RCSC and our local reps. In a thumbnail, shortly after the judge's ruling last September that RCSC was covered by Title 33 (a terrible ruling on law), magically a bill appeared in legislature that would essentially make the RCSC under Title 10 and was passed. It was drafted in the House by Kevin "foodtruck" Payne, sheparded through the Senate by Sun City resident Rick Gray and signed by the governor. This little legal two step is known as supremacy of statute, which would sort of invalidate the judge's ruling unless the Plaintiffs in the lawsuit want to litigate its constitutionality. Not to muddy up the waters, I asked the Board if RCSC was operating under Title 10 in light of the new law. The answer was that RCSC was still operating until Title 33 and will continue under Title 10 somehow. I replied what was the new law all about? Surprisingly I did not receive a straight answer.

As for the lawsuit, both myself and Carole understood the implications and legal strategy involved, subsequently confirmed by lawyers I know familiar with this type of action. The problem has always been that ANNE OF CLEAVAGE wants revenge on RCSC using other peoples money, Plaintiffs attorneys want a notch in their belt, RCSC attorneys are not accustomed to this type of action and it shows and the judge really does not understand how Sun City operates or what an ex post facto law is.

That is it in a nutshell and I have another court hearing to attend where the Marx Brothers battle the Three Stooges overseen by Rodney Dangerfield.

Carole, if I have misrepresented anything, please correct me.

Geoffrey de Villehardouin, Aug 5, 2019


Well, it is great to be back after letting surgeons slice and dice me again. Unfortunately their efforts were successful and I am back with my colorful spin on everything.
I appreciate Carole's update on the lawsuit and her spot on assessment of the clowns that pass for our legislative representatives. 3rdGen appears to be a touch uninformed as to the hijinks between the upper crust of RCSC and our local reps. In a thumbnail, shortly after the judge's ruling last September that RCSC was covered by Title 33 (a terrible ruling on law), magically a bill appeared in legislature that would essentially make the RCSC under Title 10 and was passed. It was drafted in the House by Kevin "foodtruck" Payne, sheparded through the Senate by Sun City resident Rick Gray and signed by the governor. This little legal two step is known as supremacy of statute, which would sort of invalidate the judge's ruling unless the Plaintiffs in the lawsuit want to litigate its constitutionality. Not to muddy up the waters, I asked the Board if RCSC was operating under Title 10 in light of the new law. The answer was that RCSC was still operating until Title 33 and will continue under Title 10 somehow. I replied what was the new law all about? Surprisingly I did not receive a straight answer.

As for the lawsuit, both myself and Carole understood the implications and legal strategy involved, subsequently confirmed by lawyers I know familiar with this type of action. The problem has always been that ANNE OF CLEAVAGE wants revenge on RCSC using other peoples money, Plaintiffs attorneys want a notch in their belt, RCSC attorneys are not accustomed to this type of action and it shows and the judge really does not understand how Sun City operates or what an ex post facto law is.

That is it in a nutshell and I have another court hearing to attend where the Marx Brothers battle the Three Stooges overseen by Rodney Dangerfield.

Carole, if I have misrepresented anything, please correct me.

Geoffrey de Villehardouin, Aug 5, 2019

 

First, she was never on the Board, she did have issues with the Board. I did speak with her several times when I was in Illinois and it was by phone. I met her after I believe it was Board exchange regarding sale of a golf course or reducing the length of some holes. Not clear because my ex wife and I were visiting her elderly stepmother who lived here. We had purchased a home in SC the previous year and we were here only a few days. I wouldn’t say that I knew her like being a friend, just an acquaintance.

As for the lawsuit, the attorneys she retained on a contingency basis had recently won a case in Green Valley if I am not mistaken against an HOA. The attorneys saw RCSC as the deep pockets if they prevailed. The nexus of the class action case was members being charged different amounts for PIF and rec fees at different times, based on when they purchased their residence. The complaint in excess of 20 plaintiffs and were divided into two groups as far as I could tell were plaintiffs who argued they could be harmed in the future by Board action and the other half alleging they had been harmed in the past by Board actions.

My view was that the first had no standing as they had suffered no damages, a key element of a civil lawsuit. The second group alleged they had suffered damages but they occurred over two years prior, too long ago to seek legal redress, again a key element in a civil action. Remember that this group of plaintiffs were claiming monetary damages unlike an action for poisoned drinking water which developed over time due to negligence.

The primary defense in a class action is to attack the standing of the class which would apply here, no damages on half the plaintiffs and the other half the statute of limitations had run out. If the court agrees that the action does not meet class standards but may continue, that would mean each plaintiff would have to continue on their own which they probably would not do. The attorney could continue to represent each individually on a contingency basis but expensive and slim chance of winning. The defense could also file a motion for summary judgment saying the plaintiffs have no standing for reasons I previously stated. This is basic Civil Procedure 101.

Unfortunately the plaintiffs attorneys ignored this this defense and the case went on for three years which RCSC eventually prevailed. Waste of time and money.

And that is that.

 

HH, nice follow-up post and thanks for the memories. I stand by what I said then and what I just typed. I did see your latest post AFTER I saw the last post. Any questions fire away. BTW, the CM mentioned has a paralegal degree from USC. I learned legal chops by working with and listening to attorneys with a healthy dose of street law, a topic you would not understand.

 

What? Did I say corruption? No, I did not and stop trying to convey what you think I think. That is the problem. I did say this is a good ole boys club, and I believe that. The former board members recommend who THEY feel should be elected to next board. I listen to every single meeting on line. I have no clue who you are, however you and the rest of the folks here prove my point/feelings. You do not listen, pay attention, you assume and do what you want anyway. That is why my neighbors don't go to meetings any more. Lord I hope my SCW deal goes thru. If not I will move to Sierra Vista and just live with the diamondbacks. Good lord I could not even get help from the foundation here with my dues because there were a few questions I was not comfortable with. Then Bill said it didn't really matter because no one gave a shit about me anyway!

 

EXCHANGE VIDEO IS AVAILABLE!!
Posted Tuesday 4.09.24, 11:20 am https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdLy0Uy9sKWCJNLz37tn5ug

 

No HH, my exact words were: "no one gives a shit who you are." And to be even more clear, the debate was regarding you being "doxed" when i used your first name only, "Josie." If you are going to quote me, please get it right. Thank you.

 

Not really. A little of both. EO we get that you "like" every single thing that comes from Bill's keyboard. It's a given now.

BPearson said: ↑
Nobody gives even one shit who you are; no one. Your self-inflated sense of worth is almost beyond comprehension. It's fine to love yourself, expecting others to when your whole purpose is to blow stuff up is crazy.

You never fail to amaze. Sitting waiting with my sweet 15 year old dog and it occurred to me you missed the whole point of my statement. You would rather belittle me by saying nobody gives a shit about me. Lovely. My point Bill was I signed up here with a fake name. You told all my real name, yet you say SHF protects anonymity. How can I believe that when a prominent member/SC Historian gives away my identity? You address eyesopen as EO, yet you use my name. I worked for Sun Health Foundation for many years. I understand confidentiality. You sir would not know confidentiality if it hit you upside the head.

Last edited: Jan 15, 2024
Happy Hippie, Jan 14, 2024

 

HH, hope you get your place in SCW where the living is easy and the cost of living is higher. News flash, the annual fees are higher, gas is more expensive as are groceries and I 8magine property taxes. Maybe you should rethink your position.

 

Do you ever check anything, or do you just spew BS because you can. Taxes 1/3rd less, the home i am looking at is 40k less than mine. the assessment is $540, ours is 575. If gas is 20 cent's more a gallon at 30 or so miles a week I think I can swing it. There is an old saying some attribute to Twain and some Lincoln. "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt". Seriously dude! What in the hell is wrong with you???

 

For anyone looking for recent posts regarding the library, omit looking at page 13. This thread is broken.

Jean Totten as One Day at a Time

 

Irony - save our libraries. don't read tab 13. stuff happens. life is not always strictly by the book. Read tab 13 if you want.

 

Or simply go to the new thread that is more current because it includes posts that can center on "What now?" "After the Information Session on 4.10.24"

New thread: After the Library Exchange: Library/RCSC posts
Jean Totten as One Day at a Time

 

While i'm sure most come here to read about personal grievances and imagined slights, the real issue is the libraries and what will happen to them? I know it's all minor compared to what somebody typed on a website (that's barely read btw) years ago, but yesterday was fascinating to watch. I've spent the past week reading hundreds of comments and responding as questions arose.

The one thing that is abundantly clear is this: Most people living here struggle to understand how and why Sun City works. We were unique from the day we opened and 60 plus years later, we still are. Most folks come from cities or towns with local municipalities. Many are accustomed to mayor's and city council men and women. The bigger ones have city planners who are professionally trained and whole departments of employees focused on singular tasks.

We're different, a lot different. Hell, we are even different from all the other age restricted communities that followed. Sun City West was the closest, but even they had morphed into what was to become a hybrid. Single entity governance was the order of the day with smaller communities, often times built in areas with local city government (like The Grand). It was all just different from us which exacerbated our challenges.

The library is the classic example. Their roots go back to 1961. DEVCO gave them space at Town Hall (Fairway). When DEVCO crossed the tracks and came north of Grand Ave it developed even more. By then the Friends of the Library had been formed and within two years, the initial space provided by the RCSC (they took ownership of the centers immediately) had been outgrown and a bigger space at Lakeview was provided.

Along the way, either DEVCO (initially) and then the RCSC provided the space and covered the costs. The Friends of the Library did the work, raised the money and kept them alive and functioning. April of 1976 was a banner time for the Friends as the Bell branch was opened and became their flagship. It was a beauty and remained so for years. At some point the Lakeview library closed and there was only one; Bell.

If memory serves me, they used the old Dewey Decimal System for cataloging books. It was slow, time consuming and terribly inefficient when compared to new libraries, all driven by technology. By 2006/2007 the Friends were struggling. Volunteerism was dropping off and fund raising was a year to year challenge. The community was rife for change and in 2008 the County offered up their services.

It was a Godsend for the community and the Friends. It even benefited the RCSC as the first 5 years (2009-2014) they paid the RCSC a lease on the two sites. Fairway came along around the same time in the newly opened center. Those south of Grand Ave were delighted, they had their own library which was a good thing as many of the homes had an older population who didn't have to cross the tracks.

In 2014, the lease expired. I was on the RCSC board and when we first heard the County had no interest in paying us, we immediately went to the data. Much like today, the utilization in both locations was off the charts. We made no effort to negotiate, though i heard someone say the other day the Friends of the Library helped defray the lost revenue. I don't recall that to be the case, but it may well have been.

I have no idea what happened when the lease expired in 2019, because whatever it was, it was seamless. There was nary a peep about it. I guess it was safe to assume there weren't any issues or i am sure we would have heard. By then the general manager had established and defined her role to be all inclusive of all things RCSC. In my humble opinion it was a tragic mistake to give her (or him) that much authority. Others on the board saw no problem with it as every document change had to be approved by them.

No point in recanting how screwed up this past two weeks has been. It is safe to say, it should be a teachable moment for all of us. Across the board, everyone should learn from it. From my perspective, we all can do better. I also think it starts with us helping new home buyers in Sun City fully understand how Sun City works. That's a massive undertaking, but well worth the return on investment.

As a footnote, Sun City West's library is still run and maintained by their "Friends of the Library." It was mentioned that may have been one of the things the general manager was looking at. In the same breath, i heard that library was struggling to stay open. No idea if it is true or not.

 

(To clarify for some, this reply is in response to “recent posts regarding the library.” On topic.

Broken or pushed off topic?
Appreciate back on track, on point, respectful discussions.
Thanks!

 

I am looking for some positives to come out of the library controversy. In a way, our libraries got a great deal of good PR through this. I expect more people will get their library cards and use our two wonderful libraries. I'm hoping.........