Urge a NO vote!!

Discussion in 'Sun City General Discussions' started by aggie, Apr 16, 2015.

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  1. aggie

    aggie Well-Known Member

    Now's the time to contact all the RCSC Board members to express caution on an increase of the PIF. Write, email or call the Board members and ask them to give information as to why this increase is needed at this time. They should be able to give an accounting of the proposed projects and amounts needed.....not just a general expression of "we need to do some upgrades in the future".

    The vote will come at the April 30th meeting but the increase is not to go into effect until October 1st. Act now!
     
    aggie, Apr 16, 2015
    #1
  2. pegmih

    pegmih Well-Known Member

    Please give an email address.
    Thank you.
     
    pegmih, Apr 16, 2015
    #2
  3. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Odd to hear me be the voice of reason here, but rather than a no vote, I would urge the board to table the motion, immediately restate the adhoc long range planning committee and begin to prepare for Sun Cities next twenty years. This does a couple of things; allows the board to save face and tells the community they listened to them. And more importantly they begin the putting in motion plans for the coming years with community involvement.

    It's always so easy when you're sitting on the outside looking in eh?
     
    BPearson, Apr 16, 2015
    #3
  4. aggie

    aggie Well-Known Member

    Yes, that's what I was hoping for by a no vote. A motion to table would be the way to go.
     
    aggie, Apr 16, 2015
    #4
  5. Big Red

    Big Red New Member

    RCSC once had a Long Range Planning Committee. Does anyone remember the "announced" reason for dissolving it?

    I cannot think of a more inappropriate use of an ad hoc committee than using one for long range planning. By definition it is an oxymoron, as ad hoc committees nearly always have a limited life, are single issue oriented, and then dissolve immediately after filing a report. We have been told a major reason for raising the PIF is to accumulate enormous cash reserves to fund items on the current 5 year plan and maybe more importantly to acquire the funds for major efforts at Oakmont, Mountain View and Lakeview somewhere in the future. If true, the logical responses include which one is first? What's the best possible outcome? Which of the three is the lowest priority, etc.

    There are potentially more "stakeholders" involved with significant recreation center remodeling, renovation or demolition than with upgrading a golf course. Having a permanent long range planning committee or commission in place to help collect data, offer a forum for stakeholder input, and to brain storm concepts seems not only a good idea but a necessity. I must be missing something.
     
    Big Red, Apr 17, 2015
    #5
  6. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    You're not missing a thing BR. This whole discussion really should be about our future and reinstating the LRPC. I voted against turning it into an adhoc committee; it was a bad idea then and an even worse one today. And most of the folks on that committee had no interest in seeing it shuffled off into oblivion.

    The argument was the committee had done their job (the Marinette project) and there was no need for them. Since that time there has been several modifications to the long range plan, obviously none in conjunction with or input from a long range planning committee.

    Hopefully you have read my thread on the PIF. I have gone to great lengths to try and put all of this in perspective, including some wild-assed 20 year plan, costs and all.

    Good to have you log in and join in.
     
    BPearson, Apr 17, 2015
    #6
  7. admin

    admin Administrator Staff Member

    I have dug around, and I think this is the email address to the entire board of directors. This would be a great way to ask the board to please table the motion until such time communications can occur with the community as well as prove a need for an increase.

    BoardofDirectors@suncityaz.org
     
    admin, Apr 18, 2015
    #7
  8. pegmih

    pegmih Well-Known Member

    What exactly should I ask them to do?
     
    pegmih, Apr 18, 2015
    #8
  9. admin

    admin Administrator Staff Member

    I would urge the board to table the motion, immediately restate the adhoc long range planning committee and begin to prepare for Sun Cities next twenty years.
     
    admin, Apr 18, 2015
    #9
  10. aggie

    aggie Well-Known Member

    I think this should be a 2-part process. We should be contacting the Board to table to motion to increase the PIF assessment at this time and re-visit the necessity for an increase once a firm plan for the funds is presented. There's no rush unless we're not being told of some costly projects already being planned. If the new homes being built near the Posse contribute to the RCSC as they are sold, it would provide a large source of funds for the PIF.

    I'm still not so sure a Long Range Planning Committee would be effective. The Committee is not given all the information available and necessary to do planning 5-15 years out. The previous LRP Committee in their years of planning was not told of extensive golf course projects in negotiation until the very end of planning, the solar project under negotiation and the most recently completed project of the $850,000 electronic signs. The previous LRP committee did have Marinette on the top of the list of projects. The Committee was told that that a mere $8 million had to be set aside for Viewpoint Lake repairs which was never needed.....and became the $30+ million golf course fund.
     
    aggie, Apr 18, 2015
    #10
  11. admin

    admin Administrator Staff Member

    Aggie, I hope some of this information helps with the missing pieces of the LRP and projects.

    1. Solar: It was a quick decision by the board in order to capitalize on grants and other monies to assist in the payment of the system. It was not long range planning, it was we need to act quickly in order to save millions. That is how solar came to be in a short time frame
    2. Golf course renovation: came about as a need to be compliant with the Arizona Department of Water Resources (ADWR) usage. The golf courses were eating up water at a phenomenal rate, as well as leaking, mains breaking, and water consumption was off the charts. Even the PGA person that inspects the courses said the courses were being maintained extremely well, but the water conservation needed to become a highest priority. The remodeling of the courses has a time limit associated with it, making it high priority for the RCSC to get it done.
    3. The electronic signs: were going to be parsed out over a few years. In doing it in dribs and drabs, the ultimate cost to the RCSC would have been higher in the long run. Also, when considering doing the signs all at once, or two at a time, we discussed the advantage of doing them all at once, as the project then qualified for the PIF. So, all signs done with the intent of making it a PIF project, and saving about $150K on the back end.

    I hope this helps settle some of the confusion as to why some projects are being done now, while others have their place on the list. There was a need for quick action on all of these items, therefore not requiring the LRPC to review and place on a calendar.
     
    admin, Apr 18, 2015
    #11
  12. aggie

    aggie Well-Known Member

    No confusion here. It just proves my point that the Board and Management has all the information. If it isn't shared with the LRP Committee they are planning in the dark.
     
    aggie, Apr 18, 2015
    #12
  13. admin

    admin Administrator Staff Member

    You are right , the board and management do have all of the information, that is why they are the board. There are things that are done by the board that will never be drafted down to the committees, because the committees report to the board, not the other way around. Committees are to serve the board, not drive the board. The timelines in each of these situations was so short. When the decision turnaround is 3 days, the board has the fiduciary duty to make the best decision for the corporation. This is the part that I hate with a passion, "for the corporation". Nowhere does it say for the benefit of its residents or the community, but we as a community deserve to know where are monies are being spent. Jan did cover all of this in a board meeting that about 14 people attended. It was in the financial reports posted online as well.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 19, 2015
    admin, Apr 18, 2015
    #13
  14. admin

    admin Administrator Staff Member

    During the chaos of a meeting held last week, there was one voice speaking saying they would vote "no" on the increase. This was director Wieland. Was I the only one who thought the meeting was hectic and chaotic at best? No single point of control, everyone speaking on top of the other, no one being recognized as the director speaking, to the point the members couldn't tell who was speaking or who they were speaking to. No one to stop the droning on of speakers whom had already stated their point more than once and was time to move on? So some may not want to use Robert's Rules of Order, but having the pendulum swing to obtuse open mike day seems to be a little over the top as well. Oh well, let us hope there are others willing to be the voice of reason, and table the motion and bring back the LRPC.
     
    admin, Apr 19, 2015
    #14
  15. Cynthia

    Cynthia Well-Known Member

    Do people walk up to a mike to speak or just stand? Having to walk up to a mike really stops a lot of chaos and repeats (emphasis on the can, it doesn't always work)
     
    Cynthia, Apr 19, 2015
    #15
  16. admin

    admin Administrator Staff Member

    Sorry Cynthia, I wasn't referring to the members creating chaos, I was addressing the way the board of directors carried on during the meeting. Talking over each other, not being recognized before speaking, and not controlling the speakers (RCSC members) during their time at the microphone. Normally those wishing to address the board are announced because there is a sign up sheet. Apparently that little bit of organization has been tossed to the wayside as well. The meeting ran until noon, which is a good thing, but a number of others left early, in my opinion, due to the loss of structure at the meeting. My idea of structure is to at least recognize the board member speaking, allowing those at the podium to know where the comments are being generated from. On several occasions, those at the microphone couldn't tell who was talking to them and had to wave at the member to get their attention so the member could see where the director was.
     
    admin, Apr 19, 2015
    #16
  17. aggie

    aggie Well-Known Member

    I thought it best to bring this issue back to the forefront. As of now the motion to increase the PIF from $3000 to $3500 is still on the agenda for a vote on April 30th. It would be interesting to know how many cardholders have contacted the RCSC Board in favor of this increase. It doesn't have an effect on those currently owning a home with no intention to sell so many members are complacent.

    Many questions have not been answered.....WHY EXACTLY is this increase needed at this time??? Is there an expense that has not been exposed to the membership?? Have the current projects gone way beyond projected costs??? Do all the items on the Board's Living Long Range(5-year)Plan need to be completed as proposed?

    Unfortunately at the Board meeting next week the members can only get up and speak for their 2 minutes with no answers given by the Board or Management regarding this increase. We can only hope that enough members can show up to express their concern that the reason for the increase has not been fully explained.

    We don't need to have a lecture but deserve to have answers.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2015
    aggie, Apr 23, 2015
    #17
  18. BruceW

    BruceW Active Member

    BruceW, Apr 23, 2015
    #18
  19. Cynthia

    Cynthia Well-Known Member

    But to whom are we going to ask the questions when we go to buy? You can't blame the realtor or seller.
     
    Cynthia, Apr 23, 2015
    #19
  20. aggie

    aggie Well-Known Member

    If I was a buyer I would ask the RCSC for the most recent Long Range Plan approved by the Board of Directors and also a year's worth of financial statements since they are prepared monthly. These items are readily available at the Lakeview Management office.

    The annual assessment and the PIF are important to sustaining our great facilities. Sun City is still the best compared to other area developments. Newer is not always better.
     
    aggie, Apr 23, 2015
    #20
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