Special Board Meeting, Monday, Sept. 20th at 11 AM, not 9 AM

If you would like to comment about the special Board meeting to be held on Monday, September 20, send your comments to each of the Board directors! Flood their mailboxes!

We are bigger than they are; thus:
*Be Polite
*State Facts
*State how YOU feel about this
*Mention that you certainly hope that this agenda item will go through all three motion readings. You do not want to see the readings #2 and #3 waived.
*If you know for a fact that any of these people are golfers, ask them if they are recusing themselves from voting because of Conflict of Interest. This one agenda item is for the approval of the final budget to replace the Lakes East/West Golf and Grounds Maintenance buildings at a cost of $3,948,872.
*Thank them for allowing us time for Member Comments just before the agenda item. However, be aware that we usually don't have to sign up for member comments, but in this case, it might be different!

Sue Wilson swilson@suncityaz.org

Mike Ege mege@suncityaz.org

Dale Lehrer dlehrer@suncityaz.org

Sheila Rooney srooney@suncityaz.org

Darla Akins dakins@suncityaz.org

Steve Collins scollins@suncityaz.org

Rich Hoffer rhoffer@suncityaz.org

Dan Schroeder dschroeder@suncityaz.org

Gene Westemeier gwestemeier@suncityaz.org

Click on the address above.
It doesn't take long to write an email.
Let's make Good Trouble!!!

 

Keep it clean and friendly. Absolutely and I mean absolutely NO threatening language whatsoever!!!!!! Emails can and will be used against you! BE SMART!

 

Well said Say What, she is spot on.

 

Thank you Say What and Bill for chiming in.

If you just don't know what to say, it can be as simple as, "As a member in good standing (all fees paid), I would like you to know that I do not think we need to spend almost $4 million dollars on a golf maintenance shed." Short, to the point, polite.

Remember, Good Trouble!!

 

Emails are nice, but most likely they will be ignored.
You might want to include the following questions in your emails>

Member comments at the meeting should be QUESTIONS.

1. What is the square footage of the proposed structure?
2. What is the supposed structure being built from? Wood stick framing, Metal stick framing, Block wall?
3. What amenities are being installed in the structure?
4. Who is the contractor?
5. How many bids went out?
6. Why do we need a 4 million dollar maintenance building?
7. With today's construction costs, is there any clause in the construction contract to limit any costs over contracted cost?
8. How many bids came in and can be verified?

There are probably more questions to be asked but I think these are important questions.
Send them in your emails.

 

Just received another "CORRECTED" agenda for Monday's 11 a.m. Special Session but fail to see what was corrected!?!?! Help!

 

I plan on signing up to comment on the single agenda item for Monday 9/20.
You must sign up to speak. You will be limited to 3 minutes, so be prepared with what you want to say.

I spoke to the agenda item turning the Communications Committee (renamed Communications through Technology) into a Video NewsLetter Club (my opinion). I served on this committee for over a year. It has nothing to do with our RCSC Communications per the original charter in the bylaws. The changes were in conflict of a general statement in the bylaws that all committees are "advisory" to the board. In effect the standing Communications Committee died. It is no longer as it was originally intended.

I had lots to say, and the night before, I trimmed my comments down to a single page. I didn't expect the 3 minute clock that Hoffer brought up right away. I have never seen the 3 minute clock use in any board meeting until I was at the podium. I attended or watched the video forevery board meeting over the last 3 years.

It turns out that I was able to read my revised single page summary. I did it just under the clock. Director McAdam understood my concerns fully. Director Lehrer understood, but was looking for me to water down what I wanted. I stood firm on my concerns when questioned. The other Directors were like deer in the headlights. I gained full respect for Director McAdam. She has proven to be very articulate an focused on issues. I voted for her and would vote for her again. I used to respect Director Lehrer. But no longer.

On to this Monday....

I need to speak to the agenda item. Here is my strategy - subject to much refinement... I will read something and not wander into the weeds. 3 minutes is not much time.

• I oppose the spending near $4 million at this time. It is out of budget.
  
• Why:
  • In light of the boards recent actions since June of this year, I don't approve of anything spent outside of what is currently in the approved budget.
  • The board has destroyed my trust due to lack of Due Process and Transparency regarding the Recent Board Member dismissal.
  • Private executive sessions are primarily for the protection of the subject of such a meeting. Examples: discussion of medical condition, personal finances, criminal activity, ...
  • Private executive sessions are NOT for the protection of an Elected Board in making controversial Board Decisions.
  • The June executive session did not disclose the reasons for privacy and did not follow good faith due process.
  • This is not about the decisions made in executive session, but about the manner in which it happened.
• How can I trust a board that took these actions?
  • I cannot!
    
  • I will speak up and repeat these comments for the remainder of the year for any board items where spending is being requested outside the budget.
  • I cannot trust and support a board that has disrespected the membership that elected them. Just look at recent board actions.
  • I also cannot support a Board power grab by changing the use of Robert's Rules of Order from "shall" to "may". A one word change that feeds my lack of trust for this Board.

I will not mention putting Karen McAdam back on the board, It's her decision to fight her dismissal. Not mine.
I would fully support Karen, should she decide to fight. I would probably even contribute dollars to her defense.
But it is her decision.

I will protest and not support anything this current board wants to do, for the rest of the year. I will do this on the basis of

• lack of trust
• lack of transparency
• lack of good faith actions
• lack of due process when called for
• disrespect for the members that elected them

I'm sure I'll revise what I have written here. I will comment calmly and respectfully. I will not call anyone names. I will use my 3 minutes wisely.
I doubt there will be any member comments for the remainder of the year. Only comments on a specific agenda items (3 min limit).

I intend to have a transcript of my comments to give Rusty Bradshaw (Sun City Independent Reporter). I would like to be quoted accurately, if quoted at all.

I do not intend to send emails as has been suggested. Ignoring emails is much easier than ignoring the members at the last short board meeting. I think it is a waste of my time.

I wasn't sure if the RCSC would post the video of the last meeting. They did. So I expect my comments to be in the posting of this upcoming meeting's video.

 

I'll bet you a dollar to a donut that as soon you mention:

• The board has destroyed my trust due to lack of Due Process and Transparency regarding the Recent Board Member dismissal.

They will shut you down!

 

They may try, but I will resist. I'm supporting my reason for not trusting the current board. Specifically with regard to spending $4 million.
I will demand my 3 minutes with respect. I am talking about manner in which the board acted and not on the actual decisions. It about how they destroyed my trust.

 

Hey Michael, delighted to see you join us. This is the kind of member the RCSC should be terrified of, not because he is scary (well, scary smart), but because he hasn't been involved and speaking out and now he is. More and more people are simply saying enough is enough. The board's actions have been outrageous. Normal Sun City residents are becoming aware of just how ugly this system has become. Sadly, the board won't look in the mirror, they will look out across the crowd and say, it's their fault.

Michael also found out what so many of us have encountered the last 15 years; committees are little more than for show. I've told you they've gotten rid of several of them and ones they kept or restructured were neutered to become insignificant. No point in belaboring the committee discussion. Anyone who has followed this site has heard my lament on what they have done to them, and how much they really want the members involved.

So all of you know, the rumor is they will be writing people up if they overstep their rules they lay down. Be careful, they're aching to get even.

 

I think we need to know just what type of building is being constructed. Looking back over the old Long Range Plan of June 2016, there was an item in the plan for expansion of the Lakes East/West coffee shop and golf cart storage in the amount of $1.2 million. Construction costs have gone up but not to the tune of nearly $4 million unless this is a total remodel along the lines of the smaller South Golf Course Pro Shop and Coffee Shop. The kicker is that this was in the Long Range Plan for 2024 so why is it being bumped up to be done now? The answer may be obvious but we need to hear it from the BOD.

Please refrain from making comments not related to this project so the whole meeting isn't shut down. Remember the phrase..."When they go low we go high.".

 

Welcome Michael!
You raised a great point about the committee meetings. Until I started to become more involved, I was not even aware of them. But after reading your comments, it sounds like they, along with everything else the Board touches, have become a waste of time for members and a place for the Board to continue to push back at us.

I would love to see more committees formed that really accomplish something; say, for instance, a Neighborhood Watch Committee that organizes blocks of neighborhoods (with captains and other structure in place) so that we can assist in helping prevent crime. Or how about a Welcome Committee that actually "teaches" or "instructs" new residents how Sun City really works; kind of like a Welcome Wagon. Or even a "Coffee with the Board" meeting that could be held monthly and where we, as Members, could come with questions, concerns, comments, and suggestions. Right now I only see the Board sitting on the stage, loftily above us Members, and not willing to talk to us

 

Neighborhood Watch Committees are organized by the Sun City Posse and you can contact them for more information.

I have served on 5 different committees over the years. The committee members have seemed sincere in their efforts and some things were accomplished with great effort. The biggest factor in getting items through was who was appointed BOD Chair & Co-Chair. There were years where you could tell they just wanted to skate through and make no ripples. Other years great ideas were advanced to the BOD/GM and they were shot down for no apparent good reason.

This forum has been a great source of information but it doesn't replace an individual's effort to read the documents, attend meetings and ask questions.

 

Thanks Aggie. I was not aware that the Posse did that. I still believe that the structure of the Board/Sun City could stand some changes....especially the part about us - the members - being able to accomplish something. Our hands are tied up now.

 

Hey aggie. Just so we are clear. the building that will cost 4 million dollars is the golf course maintenance building behind he walls adjacent to the 2nd hole on Lakes West. You can access it off of Cameo. You can't see it because it is behind walls, so why a metal building wouldn't work is odd. The other structure you are referring to is the snack shop/golf car storage building next to the Pro shop at Lakes East/Lakes West.

That was the one that former President Vance Coleman, after he was off the board, came to a member exchange meeting with about 50 people and they told him they would put it on the long range plan. By the way, i just heard yesterday that Vance died a week or two ago. He was a good guy and while we argued often, i had a soft spot for him. Like so many, he will be missed.

 

That's what we don't know. Are they replacing the maintenance building where it sits where it could be a metal fabricated building or is the project a combination of that and the upgrades of the pro shop/golf cart storage/coffee shop/patio areas?

Yes, Vance was quite a character. He had a great smile but the military style of governing had quite a bite to it.

 

I can only smile aggie, i had the good fortune of three years under two presidents who were retired military officers. You know, chain of command and all that. Damn, "Sir, yes sir."

 

Generally, as with the Lakes East/West golf maintenance building, the Board approves the PIF expenditure, and members do not hear further in the matter (outside of the monthly RCSC Management Reports) until the bidding process is complete, and the documents readied for the Board’s approval for award. The Board and the Board’s Bid Commission oversee this process.

The South course maintenance building was built in 2011 (after the existing building “burned down”) for around $600,000.

In 2016, the Board approved the build for Willow Brook and Willow Creek golf maintenance building. The building was built in 2017, for $1.9 million.

The Willow Brook/Willow Creek courses and the Lakes East/West courses are roughly the same size, however, in addition to golf maintenance supplies and equipment, the golf maintenance area at Lakes East/west also houses/stores equipment and supplies used by other RCSC properties.

Lakes East/West was chosen next, because the “core” golf maintenance there is not what it once was and steps needed to be taken before it became a safety issue.

The Board did consider using a prefabricated steel building, and even got pricing from AZ Corporate Bldg, but this approach was scrapped because it required two contractors. One contractor to lay the foundation and do the finish work, and one to install the building.

Perhaps now that RCSC had hired a building expert, this item can be revisited.

Ultimately, Concrete Masonry Units (CMU) was selected.

In June 2021, RCSC management invited three contractors to bid the project, and on August 5, 2021, three bids were received.

The bids were reviewed by CCBG (the Architect), and by the RCSC Bid Commission, and contact award is pending at $3.9 million.

 

Thanks Enquirer. You answered a few of my questions, but what is the total square footage of the 4 exterior walls?
Thanks

 

Couple of questions E;
1). Seems to me the south course maintenance building was higher, something around 1.8 with the insurance covering the difference between what you are reporting and the actual cost, but that is purely from memory.
2). Are the numbers for the Willow Brook/Creek building with or without the RCSC trades building on the site?

Finally, i know and quickly admit the Lakes East West building is a dump, but i don’t know why two contractors would make a difference? In another thread aggie said she thought the South course was a prefab metal building but i don’t recall, do you?

I also think adding someone that actually knows building construction was an excellent idea…even if it was after tens of millions of dollars invested by guys who didn’t have a clue?

By the way…does anyone know what the final costs all-in at the Grand Ave Center were?