RCSC Board Mtg. 9/30/21--attendees, what did ya think?

Discussion in 'Sun City General Discussions' started by suncityjack, Sep 30, 2021.

  1. suncityjack

    suncityjack Active Member

    Saw a number of familiar TOSC faces there. What are your takeaways from the mtg.?
    To get the ball rolling:
    I was very pleased at the number of times members spoke up re: the need for a Parliamentarian. Board Member Atkins' comment that they have an attorney who gives advice and that no one has "stepped forward" to volunteer as a Parliamentarian and stating that there are many versions of Robert's Rules, implying that sticking to one wouldn't be feasible, was disappointing (the latest is always the accepted version). First off, I've never heard of or read of any "Call For Parliamentarian" put forth by the RCSC Board, has anyone? Notice should've been something on the order of a call I spotted on the web that another org. put out:
    "The ASIS&T Board of Directors has launched a search for a new Parliamentarian.

    The duties of this role are:

    • Attend all regular and special meetings of the membership.
    • Be available for all meetings of the Board of Directors, the Chapter Assembly, and the Special Interest Group Cabinet.
    • Be available for consultation on procedural matters from any Association body, officer, or member.
    • Be well-versed with the rules contained in the current edition of Robert's Rules of Order and the extent to which these rules are consistent with the Association’s Constitution and Bylaws, Articles of Incorporation, and any policies or rules of order the Association may adopt.
    The required qualifications are:

    • Familiarity with ASIST through at least three years active membership.
    • Knowledge of and/or experience serving on governance boards.
    • Familiarity with Robert’s Rules."
    I agree with the need for one--as someone brought up, if $ can be found for paying for police at our mtgs., we can afford to pay for a Parliamentarian if a volunteer can't be found....
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2021
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  2. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Some good, some bad. Start with the good; they did not pass the motion regarding Robert's Rules nor the one on cancelling the board membership meeting due to acts of God or whatever. I think dropping both were sound decisions given the mood of the crowd. The Robert's Rules argument was ludicrous; nobody volunteered, so it the community's fault for not stepping up. Smartly, a woman came to the mic and told them she did a Google search and found parliamentarians can be hired quickly and without a lot of fanfare. I've only seen one other time the board shifted gears after the crowd was outspoken. So, good on them for that.

    The bad was also evident. Lots of snarky from the stage and some from the crowd as well. I will say, for the most part the crowd was pretty tame. That's a good thing. The meeting started with a speech from the outgoing gm. While i am sure some appreciated her comments, i was struck by the fact we are where we are because of her. Yes, she's done several good things, it's the move away from a sense of community that drives me crazy.

    Attendance at meeting used to be much greater. The community understood they had a voice and all they had to do was show up in force. The stupid was minimized. They (the board) knew push back would be loud and prominent. Once we hired the new gm, the evolution to a corporate structure became more obvious year by year. For years, having 20 to 30 members attend was the norm. The board and the gm pretty much did what they wanted.

    Everything changed the day they fired Karen. Everything changed the day they dumped the Mountainview Plan 2 on the crowd and then waived the second and third reading. Some days the board is their own worst enemy. For example, they went and talked to impacted clubs well after the fact. No, do it before you dump it on us. As Mike Wendel commented, it looks like you make decisions (like getting rid of SunViews in the Independent) as if you don't really care about the community as a whole.

    Another ugly was the exchange by a club member who filed an incident report on the VP and then it disappeared into a dark hole. The member, i am told is a retired police officer, and the board apparently took umbrage at him speaking up. The other downer was the exchanges between the board and Karen, who took the mic. There was nothing pretty or pleasant about the exchanges.

    Closing on a positive note, i was encouraged by the quality of comments by many of the members in the crowd. What i have learned from a historical perspective is there has always been talented people living in Sun City and the community has always benefited by tapping into them. Too bad they lost sight of that simple concept, ask people what they want and if they have an idea how to implement it.
     
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  3. FYI

    FYI Well-Known Member

    I'm pretty certain they were talking about me, but here's the other side of the story; I have written many emails to board members informing them what they did, or what went wrong at the meeting. If someone would have responded, showed an interest and asked me to better explain the situation I might have been inclined to accept their offer, but when you receive practically no response at all or simply a "thank you for your comments," why would I want to subject myself to the same type of response while sitting up on the stage? At times I was even told that I was wrong and they were right!

    I honestly believe they really need to find better legal council, and someone who actually knows parliamentary procedure and Robert's Rules because if their legal council is telling them that executive session is a "type" of meeting they're way off base. It simply refers to a meeting (or portion thereof) in which the proceedings are secret. A regular meeting, special meeting, or an adjourned meeting of either of these, could be held, in whole or in part, in executive session.

    And that's why the special session that dismissed director McAdam was null and void because the board failed to provide the purpose of the special session in the call! I was told today to read the bylaws but perhaps they need to read their own?

    ARTICLE V, SECTION 5

    "Special Sessions of the Board may be called by the President or upon the written request of three (3) or more Board of Directors. The purpose of the meeting shall be stated in the call and posted on the RCSC website (www.suncityaz.org). Except in cases of emergency, at least seventy-two (72) hours’ notice shall be given." (Note: Special Sessions don't require 7 days notice or posting of the agenda)

    Because the meeting was to be held in executive session the only members who would receive the notice would be those who would be attending, and know what the meeting was to be about. No names needed to be mentioned in the call (since it was for disciplinary actions) but a purpose of the call still needed to be stated.

    "The only business that can be transacted at a special meeting is that which has been stated in the call of the meeting." (RONR 9:15)

    I hope somebody from the board will read this, not that it will make any difference, but they might learn something!
     
  4. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    I'm pretty sure they were talking about you as well FYI, and you are right, even if they read the language you posted from their own documents, it wouldn't matter. The role of a parliamentarian is fraught with misery if they won't listen to the right way to do it. One of the problems we all have is knowing when and how documents were changed. Hell, i would be curious when the swearing in of board members language was written or rewritten, but i know of nowhere to find such documents.

    On a brighter note, the board at least admitted that golf must be self-sustaining. Hopefully going forward the new board and the new general manager insures that happen. Sadly over the last 15 years that hasn't always been the case. I had a golfer ask me as i was leaving the mic why lawn bowling didn't have to be self sustaining? Easy, that is not how the rec centers and other activities were deeded to us. The fear that the golf courses would become a money pit was always at the center of concern and why it took so long to acquire them from DEVCO. History does matter.
     
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  5. aggie

    aggie Well-Known Member

    I wonder if the early leaders of Del Webb imagined our golf and bowling facilities would be open to the public? Sure, they may pay a few dollars more to use our amenities but it nowhere comes near paying a fair share of our costs as RCSC Members.
     
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  6. jeb

    jeb Active Member

    Takeaways:
    Positive: Stopped them from doing whatever they wanted w/ regard to two agenda items. 20 people in the room probably wouldn't have accomplished that - 200 did. Keep showing up. Got them to sit there for 3 hours and listen without using some bogus excuse to end the meeting. Got a few more members to stand up and call out the elephants in the room with regard to the Boards behavior and attitudes (I love the word snarky). We got to see and hear the hesitations and stutters when faced with questions they didn't want to answer (I spent 15 long years with a narcissist... I don't believe some of these people will EVER admit they were wrong and it's a waste of my time to try. My goal is to get everyone else to see the avoidance.)
    Negatives: Does it matter? All sorts of our concerns, questions, and ideas lay dead on the battlefield. That's what happens. Raise a toast, sing a song, shed a tear and move on.
    Secretary Lehrer thanked the woman who said the bylaw (allowing them unfettered removal of elected official) should be changed. I believe she said 'that's productive'. Let's move on it. That one and the one making it impossible for Membership to initiate recall petition need to change. Who sits in those chairs needs to be decided by 37,000 people - not 6.
    Annual Membership Meeting will happen. And elections coming up.
    As Bill has said - this happened over years of neglect, I'm willing to spend a few more hours over next few years to fix it.
     
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  7. aggie

    aggie Well-Known Member

    Oh, how about the teaser regarding the dirt floored 3000 sq ft room waiting to be occupied at Grand Center??? Anyone have any guesses? Since there are clubs now in the Grand Center that were never considered by the ad hoc long range planning committee, who deserves dedicated space or what will its use be? The one activity that begged the committee for space was those that want more room for aerobics or group exercise classes. They made no headway at that time. Maybe the Sundial Mens Club needs new digs which would fit right alongside the Vintage Vehicles and Sportsmens Club. They shouldn't release information like this without giving us some background on how the decision-making process was being done.

    Wouldn't it be great if it was a dedicated meeting room for Committees that would be outfitted with the proper tech to record the meetings? Since the Camera Guild is right next door it would be so handy to have the help just steps away.
     
  8. eyesopen

    eyesopen Well-Known Member

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  9. Michael Wendel

    Michael Wendel Active Member

    Rusty wrote a great article. Lets hope it shows up in print (next weeks Sun City Independent). I don't think the online community compares with the printed distribution.

    I would appreciate a lesson (eyesopen) on how you found this article. Someone posted my letter to the editor that got an online article like this one.
    I am a digital subscriber to YourValley.Net (the owner of all the Independent news papers). I searched using my account and could not find the article quoting me. I'm dense on this one. Someone please enlighten me on how to find these on-line articles.

    I appreciate that members of this forum, post the direct links. Thank you!
     
  10. Say What

    Say What Active Member

    Real nice that Ek is a member and the rest of us are cardholders. Wasn't that special. Then, because none of us can read she reads the entire policy to us like we are 5 years old. Gene is what the problem is here. Old Moldy Ideas, unable to see the vision for the future. We need to change the way board members are brought in to fill a position. This needs to be done by the way people voted and the person who had the next highest vote be put in the open position. Old crusty fossils belong to be put out to pasture. There's a lot of pasture in Texas.
     
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  11. eyesopen

    eyesopen Well-Known Member

    I would appreciate a lesson (eyesopen) on how you found this article. Someone posted my letter to the editor that got an online article like this one.
    I am a digital subscriber to YourValley.Net (the owner of all the Independent news papers). I searched using my account and could not find the article quoting me. I'm dense on this one. Someone please enlighten me on how to find these on-line articles.”


    Right below the Independent masthead, there’s a prompt to select newspaper.

    Choose Sun City.
    There you’ll find published as well as advance subscriber only information Rusty posts on his Twitter account.
    I bookmark the Sun City site.

    You’ll need to explore to acquaint yourself with the loose format. Print editions are digitized for viewing, as well.

    I usually include screenshots, but ever since the TOSC site was restored, I can’t! No response to my contact for help, yet.

    Hope this helps.
     
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  12. Michael Wendel

    Michael Wendel Active Member

    Thank you.
     
  13. eyesopen

    eyesopen Well-Known Member

  14. suncityjack

    suncityjack Active Member

    Not that this question has anything to do with what you wrote, ;)but how was the board member who filled Karen's spot chosen?
     
  15. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    They simply pick who they want, former candidates who didn't get enough votes are seldom considered.
     
  16. eyesopen

    eyesopen Well-Known Member

    Yes, it is that easy!
    RCSC Corporate Bylaws (PDF)
    Amended February 8, 2021
    Article V - Board of Directors

    Section 4. Length of Terms & Vacancies
    5. Vacancies occurring on the Board during the year (January 1 through December 31) may be filled by appointment by the Board. A majority vote of the Board (5) is required for said appointment. An appointment ends on December 31 of the year appointed. An appointed term does not enter in the six (6) year limit set forth in the Articles.
    https://suncityaz.org/corporate-bylaws/
     
  17. SCR

    SCR Active Member

    One of the things that caught me ear was "why was the GM answering a question on how a proxy works". Shouldn't the board be able to answer that question?

    If you own a smartphone are you not capable of joining a ZOOM meeting? It may not be strict internet access as with a PC, but if you can join ZOOM on a smartphone the boards argument that a lot of people don't have internet access. I'm sure there are people with no internet access but do have access through their smartphone.

    With regard to the dirt floor location, why wasn't this space planned for with the rest of the Grand ave build/ Sounds like a complete lack of planning on the boards part.
    Just some random thoughts.
     
  18. SCR

    SCR Active Member

    If the board has a tape showing the crowd rushing the stage, they should make it public.
     
  19. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    One of the things you will and should note is the gm often over the past 15 years has answered the questions from the floor. The board is always quick to expect her to fill in the blanks. I never cared for that as the board should be versed in most aspects of how it works. Unfortunately they have been dumb-ed down with challenges like the length of pool noodles, the width of golf car tires and whether someone has an extra golf ball in their pocket on a mini-golf course.

    The other day when i asked the question about golf being self-sustaining, the looks were terrifying. They should be. Over the years golfers have dominated the boards and so we are clear, a real "conflict of interest" as a board member would be if golfers didn't hold the gm accountable for every nickle spent being factored into the true round of a cost of golf. The simple truth is, by being complicit in allowing her to fudge the numbers, they are essentially benefiting from the non-compliance with cheaper golf rates. That my friends is one of the exact interpretations of a "conflict of interest."

    They can say it never happened, but unless and until you are willing to do a forensic audit, it's all just happy horse crap.
     
  20. OneDayAtATime

    OneDayAtATime Active Member

    Yes, I asked that question and wondered why no one on the Board could answer it.
    Excellent point about Zoom. I know my granddaughter uses her iPhone to access our family Zooms.
    Thank you for mentioning the dirt floor building on Grand. I asked that question, too. I have been absorbing and retaining some of you who post on TOSC but do not ask the question of the Board....so I did (and will continue to use my 3:00 minutes to ask things that you - who have been on here a lot longer than I have - don't.) So if I get a good answer, thank me. And if I asked a stupid question, I read it somewhere!!!:):p:D
     

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