Inquiring minds...

Discussion in 'Sun City General Discussions' started by BPearson, Jan 5, 2017.

  1. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Often i muse to myself how much simpler life would be if i just ignored what is going on within the community. Seriously, playing brain dead would allow me far more piece of mind. Unfortunately, that won't happen, i'm not wired that way.

    All of which brings me to this concern and rumors floating about: Most of us recall the turmoil when the RCSC announced the $2 per month increase in rec fees (property assessment) and other related hikes. As you may recall, the raise was due Prop 206 and the minimum wage hike to $10 an hour.

    Several of the folks at both the board meeting and member exchange implored the RCSC to look at considering streamlining the operation or perhaps scaling back wherever possible. Of course, the board told us that wasn't possible.

    However, at the very same time this was going on (Nov/DEC 2016) there was apparently significant restructuring taking place behind the scenes. Originally the Assistant GM was going to retire, but then decided to hang on in a lessor capacity. Which opens doors for a new Asst GM to be named. Apparently all of this is moving forward, and the question becomes...at what cost? And further, who will be doing what duties and how much compensation will be they be getting to do those duties?

    As we discussed in another thread, the Asst. GM has played a pivotal role in these extensive projects. Some of them have been troubling to watch, especially the ones where the original bids came in under $300K and were shoved into the capital budget; only to hear this often used contractor break open a wall and suddenly increase his bid by 100 to 200K. Troubling because projects of that scope could then fall into the PIF.And that says nothing of the classic F-ups along the way.

    Typically i don't get involved in the day to day operations, but given the sizable increases we are eating, these kinds of questions deserve answers, in my humble opinion.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2017
  2. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    So i am more clear, the question really becomes: Have we just added another new layer of management with a significant price tag associated with it?

    Speculation is the GM will be retiring in the next couple of years and apparently we are grooming the soon to be named Asst. GM to replace her. Not an entirely a bad idea...but is it one we can afford to live with given the increases we are facing?

    Obviously the projects we have been doing since we became all golf/all the time have fallen off the face of the earth, other than the replacing the golf maintenance buildings, so maybe we don't need an Asst. GM to have his hands on projects. That said, how many people do we need making more than 100K per year?

    Lots of questions, very few answers eh?
     
  3. Cynthia

    Cynthia Well-Known Member

    That's a luxury few experience...two years paid training.
     
  4. IndependentCynic

    IndependentCynic Active Member

    Food for thought:
    Based on several recent salary surveys I found via Google, the average city manager in the US makes less than $100k. For example, the CM of Albuquerque (pop 500,000, 180 sq-miles, 4 golf courses, 5 indoor pools & 7 outdoor pools, etc) was listed as making $115K. SC is only pop 40k, 14 sq-miles by comparison. Maybe I'm naive, but $100k in SC seems a bit much?

    The average Parks and recreation director makes significantly less than $100k and mostly requires a masters degree.

    I realize it's armchair quarterbacking, but it's easy to question whether we need much high salaried management staff. We could, instead, subcontract requirements writing, architect, bid prep, project management services, etc for major upgrades and projects and pay for that as part of PIF funded activities instead of member assessment funds.

    Lots of the screw ups of late were not the contractor's fault from what I've heard... they were more the result of RCSC management's propensity to create shoot from the hip requirements and make poor project management decisions. I've also heard that some of management staff had little applicable experience when hired. Nobody's perfect, but there have been lots of screwups. And, if it's necessary to train a new boss for two years then that person doesn't have the right experience for the job. SC is more than a park, but less than a city in it's management needs I'd think.
     
  5. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    I always try to stay positive about Sun City and hate to think people may see this is some kind of witch-hunt, it isn't. As IC points out, there have been lots of screw-ups, but there's little to be gained by pointing fingers. I always figured the most important aspect of a mistake was to learn from it. Sadly, it doesn't appear we have.

    I've been begging the board for years now to reinstate the long range planning committee, and this time to do it right. This community needs a true long range commitment to the future and where we are headed. A plan for success doesn't happen by accident, it works because those serving on it are constantly looking at trends and making decisions. Of course it's fluid and evolving.

    We have been flying by the seat of our pants for too long. The all golf/all the time plan was crafted by a very small minority and will impact the majority for years to come. The changes in management being made now will affect all of us. I'm less concerned by what we pay people than i am by what they do and how they run the community.

    And here's the shocker for all of you: It is the board that should lead the community and it's direction, not the management team.
    Unfortunately, that hasn't been the case for years now.
     
  6. IndependentCynic

    IndependentCynic Active Member

    I totally agree when finger pointing is used solely to deflect responsibility away from ones self (ie, I didn't screw up he did), or when it's intent is to maliciously discredit someone. OTOH, you can't solve these types of problems without identifying the problem and the why and who is responsible. Unfortunately there is often a fine line between the two.

    In a nutshell, we're adults here. In a sense we members are "customers" who are "paying" (via assessments and fees) the directors and management team to achieve results for us. If they don't, who has the responsibility to call them out if not us?

    I'm all for RCSC teamwork and motivation and community spirit (in the RCSC context), but we members can't be part of the "team" when the team doesn't listen to their customers and doesn't make public their reasons for doing something other than what members want. The whole situation has become way to partisan (members vs board/management) for our own good...
     
  7. Cynthia

    Cynthia Well-Known Member

    Exactly. This is what has always confused me about the situation. We, the paying customers, should have a say in what is done, not just who is elected. And since the elected board members volunteer their time, why are they closed about not wanting the community to be involved in the planning of it? Would it really make their job that much harder?
     
  8. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Anyone who has worked with committees knows they slow down the process, especially if those who are in control have their own agenda. The argument we heard when the long range planning committee was dissolved was that those on the committee had their own agendas. Really?

    Think about that for a minute. A diverse group of people with what they think might be good for the community come together to forge future plans. Somehow that's a bad thing compared to someone deciding we should dump 50 million dollars into golf course renovations and outbuildings. Really?

    And while i am on my soapbox, let me just say, not for profits are notorious for not only not holding people accountable; they also tend to applaud people even when doing shoddy jobs. Hence those who screw up don't even realize it because everyone is too busy clapping for them and giving them atta-boys.

    Here's the good news, in spite of it all, we are still a great place to live...the problem is, we could be way better, so much more.
     
  9. IndependentCynic

    IndependentCynic Active Member

    Even so, most non-profits have organizational checks/balances because ultimately they have to keep customers happy... otherwise they can't generate sufficient funds to perpetuate the corporation. Their management is driven to do a good job to perpetuate their job and reputation -- and so they have some incentive to hold individuals accountable. Not so the RCSC -- the RCSC's operational "income" is guaranteed (via deed restriction assessments) regardless whether the RCSC delivers a product/service, let alone one their customers (ie, members) desire. So there is no organizational need to hold anyone accountable. At the extreme, the RCSC could continue to exist and consume our assessment dollars if no members ever sat foot on RCSC property. Of course, I'm sure the members would revolt and exercise their checks/balances right to tell the board what to do if the situation ever became that serious. So at one extremes, the board knows they have to listen to the members to the degree needed to prevent revolt, and at the other extreme member factions know they need to attain a strength of roughly 10% to have sufficient power to initiate changes the board doesn't support. Mostly, both sides exist somewhere between these extremes, both sides feeling somewhat maligned, ignored, and disrespected by the other.

    During my 10+ years in SC the board has always been disproportionately receptive to the golf community's desires and, to some extent, the bowlers. I'd guess those two factions represent about 30% of the members. Residents who lived here in the 70's tell me it was even more disproportionate back then. Ten or so years ago some members became more vocal and critical (the most predominate being Anne Randall Stewart) within the framework of member meetings, board interchange meetings, and the old newszap forum. In my mind some of their stances had general merit, some were pretty parochial, some borderline petty (beauty being in the eye of the beholder, I guess). The board at that time appeared to take it all as an attack and, instead of listening and negotiating a solution, stonewalled with by-law and policy changes which essentially made the board invincible. So the group eventually sued and that suit is meandering along in the courts.

    The invincible situation can and will continue as long as the RCSC can control the information stream. Think about it... the RCSC has a website, ability to email membership, ability to make postings throughout the facilities, ability to post/not post to their YouTube channel, Sunviews, etc, etc. Activists have this forum and word of mouth. If a member activist tried to hand out flyers, collect signatures, etc on RCSC property they will eventually have their membership revoked. If they were to verbally criticize/organize on RCSC property they would soon be accused of violating one of BP10's Code of Conduct items -- "Any Cardholder whose conduct is unbecoming or who breaks any RCSC rule or regulation is subject to disciplinary action" gives the RCSC complete power to decide what constitutes "unbecoming". This isn't just conjecture, I've seen all of these methods tried and thwarted by the RCSC over the past 10+ years. Social media activism is the only approach the RCSC can't control. Unfortunately, the membership is not very savvy in social media tactics... yet !
     
  10. Cynthia

    Cynthia Well-Known Member

    Most boomers, GenX and millinials are, so that part will change with time. Can't happen soon enough IMHO. It would be helpful if more people participated here.
     
  11. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    So part of the problem is golfers and 10 pin bowlers pay to play and typically are more vocal. That said, it is essential to grow the numbers of people who pay attention and get involved.The bigger question is how to do that.

    Your point is spot on IC, when your yearly fees are a given, little else has to be. We used to have this argument/debate regarding right to work states and those where union shops were the norm. In the end, there's no right or wrong way, because ultimately it comes down to what you do on the other end when the dues comes in. The incentive to do it better really is an internal decision made by those who have the control.

    The funny thing about social media/message board/forums is the one place we could do a better job, but most folks aren't interested in even taking that small step.

    Go figure.
     
  12. IndependentCynic

    IndependentCynic Active Member

    True, but it's changing fast. I think in general the older the member the less likely they are to embrace social media. But I certainly know of many exceptions among my friends. Within the SC context, I've observed that Internet savvy has evolved rapidly over the past 5-years or so. Our members are being dragged kicking and screaming into the Internet revolution by pressures on all fronts -- medical -- customer service -- retail sales -- and recreation. People who once struggled to get their email now have a smartphone and a Kindle or iPad. Clubs are increasingly adopting websites and social media in their organizations to keep members organized and informed. People who once proudly proclaimed they didn't own a computer now keep their defiance to themselves. While many aren't interested in getting more Internet savvy, they're not resisting it as much as they struggle to keep up.

    Pew Research claims 60% of 65+ are now internet users. The younger Boomers are in the high 80%. Of those using the Internet, Facebook is the clear social media winner at over 75% usage -- none of the other platforms (twitter, pinterest, etc ) garner more than 30%. Although I haven't personally looked at any of these, a search of Facebook shows both Sun City West and Sun City Grand accounts exist and within SC a dozen or more clubs and organizations have a presence. As times progress I predict the RCSC will be much less able to control the narrative to benefit their position and control transparency. The genie is coming out of the bottle.
     
  13. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Couldn't agree more IC, clearly the future is all about technology and how and who uses it the best. And for what's it's worth, those running things shy away from it because they can't control it. The biggest challenge for those on the outside looking in is to find ways to make it work to our advantage.

    I don't mean in adversarial ways, but to help insure our voices are heard. All too often we get drowned out by those in control and who feel their agenda is better or more right.

    The exploding PIF expenditures are the perfect example. That decision/commitment was made and now we all will live with it. Only time will tell if it was right or wrong, and by then, those who shoved it through will be long gone.

    As i said at the member exchange, Sun City is and always has been something very special. And while the RCSC plays and integral role, the future belongs to each and every one of us. If we can figure out how to harness the available technology, we will enhance the role we play as we move forward.
     
  14. IndependentCynic

    IndependentCynic Active Member

    What is needed, in my opinion, is a free online media presence in SC which allows members to report local news and allows a balanced voice for opinions. Ie, one place for all the news and announcements pertinent to the community, be it about the RCSC, the SCHOA, the various other organizations, charities, support groups, police reports, County and State actions which affect the SC community, etc. In my opinion the Daily News Sun website is a waste of one's time. The Independent is a little better informationally, but has no online presence except for what's duplicated on the Daily News Sun. Forums such as TOSC aren't mainstream enough in today's Facebook dominated media culture and aren't "newsy" enough to attract the general resident. The RCSC and SCHOA websites are too parochial to their own organizations, are not "newsey" enough on a daily basis, and provide no vehicle for reader participation. There's still a need for traditional media, but our instant need to know culture begs for more and wants it delivered to our ipads and phones as it happens.

    In the context of social media today, every member/reader is a reporter and mostly unfiltered... I imagine members posting about what's important to them at the moment -- a death or illness or accident or an item on sale at Frys or a free clinic or whatever else you might see in social media groups today. I believe it could provide the catalyst needed for SC to think of itself as a "community" in a sense that's more than just a designation on the county map, more than just the RCSC or the SCHOA -- something closer to the City of Volunteers attitudes of the past where residents felt their involvement was needed to help the community thrive. Social media enables the community to seem like we're all next door neighbors even though we're spread across 14 square miles.

    Clearly such a social media presence couldn't be a complete free-for-all -- such an endeavor would be a huge undertaking in managing so trolls and commercial interests and political operatives didn't monopolize or overwhelm, that activists couldn't takeover, etc. But imagine what such a group might accomplish in generating community comradery by publicizing up to the minute happenings, answering member's questions about a variety of topics, and providing a vehicle for collaboration and harnessing their collective wisdom in solving community problems.
     
  15. Cynthia

    Cynthia Well-Known Member

    Should we start our own resident's FB page? Could be some work keeping out the trolls but most of what you want could be accomplished. We could have several admins so the work is spread out. Do you think most SC people are on FB?
     
  16. sussea

    sussea Member

    What about nextdoor.com? I belong to the north Sun City group.
     
  17. Cynthia

    Cynthia Well-Known Member

    Those are so area specific. I belong to the Dawn Lake group. Personally, I don't find it as easy as FB but it's good for certain things. Do you like it?
     
  18. sussea

    sussea Member

    Yes I do. *There are postings every day. *You have the option of joining other groups that are nearby.
     
  19. pegmih

    pegmih Well-Known Member

    I agree. Some people have waaaay to much time on their hands.

    I get tired of people trying to show off their grandkids.
    I have mentioned that it is not a good idea to post pictures of kids.

    You don't need FB to keep in touch with people.

    Yesterday I was at a birthday party. And, sure enough,
    several people just had to keep checking their smartphone or whatever.
    Very rude. Those contraptions should be checked at the door and
    I know of people who require that! My kids would probably not visit!
     
  20. Cynthia

    Cynthia Well-Known Member

    If you want to keep in touch with people who don't live near you, FB is great. I like it most for the groups. I'm on bird groups, butterfly groups, art groups, music groups etc. It's all in how you use it. In the past I did those things too, but they were spread out over many websites. It's convenient.
     

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