Building a Sense of Community...Revisted.

Discussion in 'Sun City General Discussions' started by BPearson, Jun 24, 2021.

  1. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    I know at least one board member that hates this position and while that is fine, i have never wavered on my sentiment regarding it. In fact, it was one of the reasons i elected to live here. Our history was steeped in a ownership mentality. Meeker went to endless lengths to insure it was built into our documents. Inclusion was at the core, it was our foundation to build on.

    When i ran for the board, i suggested every board member at the very least should read Jubilee, Sun City's 25th anniversary book. I felt it critical board members not operate in a vacuum of ignorance but have a basic understanding of our values; why we succeeded, why we were successful. Foolish me eh?

    Today's board meeting might have been the most embarrassing in our history and there's been several to choose from. Worst part is i was only there 10 minutes and i could see the crap pile coming before it ever started. The Mountainview remodel has been a cluster-flock for several years now and today it hit its low point.

    Let me be clear, i am not against a theater. Never have been, never will be. What i am opposed to is the board doing things that are at the very least ugly...or maybe in this case BUTT UGLY. For those of you who aren't/don't pay attention, let's recap.

    They began this process way back when with town hall type meetings. Then it sat in limbo for what seemed like forever because the board got side tracked with other projects. The theater folks were always in the back ground pushing (that's a good thing). Other stakeholders (sporting clubs at MV) expressed their concerns and it appeared as if board members were listening. Hell, when they released the plan renovations this spring (before everyone left), everything was intact and it all looked good.

    Come June, a new and improved plan was developed, in fact, two of them. The first tweaked plan 1 and minor modifications were made. At that same time Plan 2, phase 1 of it were presented and at the first meeting in June the board endorsed the plan 2, phase 1 concept. In my opinion, and i said this at the meeting, it is better...except.

    See, plan 2 takes away, the bowling green, the pickleball, the tennis, the mini-golf and the horseshoe courts. All of which caused major consternation for the pickleball players. The other clubs (other than tennis) weren't given any notice and when they come back this fall, the shit will hit the it should.

    Here's why: at today's meeting, they waved the third reading of the motion which would have happened in September when people are back and would show up and raise hell. Karen rightfully argued the whole purpose of three readings is to give those affected a voice in their community.

    The argument apparently is because the theater people have been waiting 27 years they should speed ahead with the project. Of course the problem is there is a boatload of problems coming at us regarding Viewpoint lake and the golf course water management changes coming from the state and we have no idea what that means as of now; other than is will cost us lots of money.

    The idea this all transpired in a three week period at the deadest time of the year is horrible from both an optics standpoint and worse yet from building a sense of community. In the crowd today were two factions, the theater folks wanting to push forward quickly and the pickleball players wanting to slow the roll and at least get some commitments.

    I see in another thread FYI said Karen McAdams was fairly well vilified for speaking out on behalf of p-baller's. Ludicrous on its face because frankly, the board in total should be looking at the big picture of the community, not a small sampling of those who want what they want (and i mean from both sides). There is a reason for a process and to circumvent it sends the wrong message to the community at large.

    Of course, if the history means nothing, if building a sense of community means nothing, then today's actions are perfectly fine.
  2. FYI

    FYI Active Member

    Wait until you see the video!!! I was kinda taken off guard when Sue suddenly quoted the conflict of interest clause from the RCSC bylaws! Seems to me that must have been one of those behind the scenes pre-planned conspiracies among the "chosen few" to gang-up on Karen? She's a tough cookie and defended herself well.

    Doesn't EVERY board member have a conflict of interest if they're making decisions on things that effect the very place where THEY live?
  3. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Are you freaking kidding me FYI? So let me sort this out for those of you confused by the BULLSHIT coming out of the rest of the board members attacking Karen. Million and millions and millions of dollars have been thrown at the golf courses in the past 15 years. Not to be blunt, but the board has been made up of predominantly golfers all of this time that money was spent there; guess who voted for it, who lobbied on its behalf? DUH! Freaking unbelievable.
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2021
  4. FYI

    FYI Active Member

    I need to make a correction! I just watched the video and although it was Sue who accused Karen of a conflict of interest, it was director Lehrer who read the RCSC bylaws!

    Not that it makes much of a difference, but it just seemed like everybody was locked and loaded and gunning for Karen.
  5. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Where the hell did you get a copy of it already? Made an adjustment to my statement above. Could have stayed but as long it was a group effort, might as well share the heat.
  6. FYI

    FYI Active Member

    I went to the bottom of the RCSC website page and clicked on the YouTube link!
    BPearson likes this.
  7. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Damn you FYI. I was waiting for them to send the email with the video but once you told me it was posted to the website i went and watched it...till 12:30 in the morning. How sick is that? It wasn't as bad as i thought it would be as Karen more than held her own. Gotta love Hoffer's bs answer; nope not golfing now, but what about the last six or seven years when you were golfing and voting and pushing for all the expenditures for golf? And to be sure; he's not alone. I don't give two shits about it, but if we are to follow their argument that because Karen plays pickleball, she has no right to speak out because of a "conflict of interest."

    Utter and complete nonsense. Really? If i started listing all the pet projects the retreads have pushed through where they had a vested interest in the outcome, we could be here for hours. My goodness, anything to shut her up. You all ought to be ashamed. Dissenting opinions are how the board should work. When Fairway was built, they went to every club way ahead of time and had the discussions regarding impact. Now they wait till June when folks are gone and shove it through. Did i mention shameful?

    Finally, now you see first hand how and why i argued against changes to the documents that would have presented this power grab. When we had membership meetings when the quorum was 100, the boards had to work in concert with the community. Now, you all just run over them. Not how we were built, not why we were successful. Shameful.
  8. aggie

    aggie Well-Known Member

    Glad I wasn't at the meeting and had watched the video as soon as it was posted to the RCSC website. Too frustrating when you know whatever is said at the mic will carry no weight when it comes to the Board vote. What Jan Ek said about needing figures for budgeting did make sense but the whole process was still uncomfortable to watch. I was surprised that there wasn't a malfunction in the recording of the meeting.

    This whole theater vs pickle ball competition could be avoided by building a stand-alone performing arts center at the southeast corner of the Bell parking lot. It must make too much sense to do that or it would have already been built when it was recommended by the disbanded Long Range Planning Committee nearly 10 years ago. Constructing the building at Bell wouldn't disrupt all the other activities at Mountain View, some of the existing buildings at MV could just be modified and it would leave plenty of space for all the other amenities including expanding pickle ball courts.

    Maybe this whole phased plan #2 will fall through with the required lake and golf course turf reduction orders. Wouldn't it be great if a Plan #3 would be a Bell Performing Arts Center?? The new Board in 2022 will have some big decisions to make.
  9. FYI

    FYI Active Member

    Yeah, it wasn't only Hoffer who threw her under the bus. Every member except Rooney got their digs in and took a shot at Karen. First Sue accused her of a conflict of interest, then Lehrer chimed in and read the RCSC bylaws about conflicts of interest, Mike Ege brought up the issue that Karen had asked another board member to submit a motion that she had taken a part in writing and why wasn't that an admission of being a conflict of interest and Collins made it clear why, as Karen had suggested, phase 3 couldn't be done first, and Schroeder performed the coup de grace to waive the third reading! Not to mention Jan Eck's contribution as to why it had to be voted on NOW....TODAY or else they couldn't get costing!!! Give me a break! By the time they actually start on the MV project any numbers they receive now, or probably even within the next two years will be totally useless!

    And if Lakeview Lake is leaking, it stands to reason that Dawn Lake is just as bad? Now... I know the RCSC isn't responsible for Dawn Lake but my understanding is Dawn Lake gets its water from us? Does anybody know?
  10. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    No idea on Dawn Lake or if it has issues. Oddly enough, a good friend and i were chatting about that just the other day. The lake is owned by the residents but it does feed the golf courses to the best of my knowledge.

    The funny thing about the video of the meeting is how it was/is abundantly clear Karen understands how boards' should work far more than anyone else on the stage. It's just like your knowledge of Robert's Rules FYI. I would never even attempt to argue or debate them with you, it's way over my pay grade. On the other hand, we taught situational ethics how trustees are supposed to act when they are fiduciaries. That's why i stayed up and kept watching because Karen took their arguments and made them look stupid...because they were. The idea because someone plays/does something doesn't preclude them from speaking on an agenda item. What they can't do is personally benefit (typically monetarily) from their position.

    I can personally point out any number of times directors (usually officers) got things done that weren't even on the agenda or scheduled, but somehow it became part of the capital budget. The thing is, it didn't benefit them in a monetary way, but it was tacky to get stuff pushed to the front of the list. Never once did i hear an outcry from any board members for "conflict of interest," but them most of them were golfers and they all just merrily shoved things through.

    What you are seeing from the board is an effort to shut Karen up. She literally has brass balls as she rebuts their foolishness every step of the way. And aggie is right, this shouldn't be the theater folks versus the pickleball/sports clubs being moved out of Mountainview for an unknown and likely in some cases forever period of time. It's why i have long argued for a cohesive and strategic plan so these kinds of problems are avoided. They simply tear the community apart.
  11. FYI

    FYI Active Member

    And you would have thought they foresaw those issues? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that while MV was under construction the existing venues weren't going to be available for use. They should have sat down and figured out what their options were first so that they could present some sort of plan to the cardholders and, at least, let them know it's been something they were concerned about and working on. But no, let's just shut everything down and we'll figure out what to do later!

    I really feel sorry for the Players Club. All the other venues have duplicate facilities at another rec center but the theater group is simply left out in the cold! Sucks to be you!

    As far as Karen goes, I hope she doesn't bail-out but wouldn't blame her if she did. Who needs that much grief at our age? And you have to wonder,... once they start reading and accusing a member of a conflict of interest, how long will it be before they try to remove her from the board?
  12. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    I still can't imagine why the players couldn't put a performance or two on a year at the Sun Dial auditorium FYI. I know it would take some juggling of the schedules due to all of the things they use the venue for but seems to me to keep them from going dark for several years is a far better option. Even if they pare the performances back a bit i would think it workable.

    Before i quit the latest version of the long range planning committee, we had written a summary for the board of what was needed to appeal to generation X. Mostly it dealt with enhanced technology, maintaining reasonable costs and expanding hours for those working way later in life. In it though was the proposal that any actions we (the RCSC) took would look at how any action would impact any decisions. Point being was exactly what is happening at Mountainview. Before you plow forward, you make plans to address community concerns. Guess that one fell on deaf ears as well.

    I'm not sure Karen stays with it. They have been badgering her for months now. Nitpicking all kinds of bullshit that others do but writing her up for crap. Rumor has it one of the officers dropped all kinds of f-bombs at her with nary a warning.
  13. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    This is exactly how not to build a sense of community. Dumping Karen, a duly elected member to the board by a group of her peers; sends a god-awful message to the community. The pickleball club members, all 600 plus of them will be crazed. When the lawn bowlers from Mountainview, which happens to be closed now, get back and find out they've lost their greens and when the tennis players return from the summer break to find those courts are gone for good, there will be to say the least, turbulence. There's about 400 lawn bowlers, most join all 5 clubs though they usually play only at 1 or 2 of them, it will be ugly. The good news for them is there are options, with two greens to use in Phase 1 still. The thing about the Mountainview club is it was probably the most social of all of them. The players there were less tournament oriented and more social bowlers. They just liked to have fun.

    The idea that the board would just close something without a discussion first isn't how this should work. Over the years there is always tough choices to be made, but they shouldn't be made in the dead of summer when everyone is gone. Karen was spot on; the whole point of three readings was to give the community ample opportunity to step forward and voice their opinion. Shameful.
  14. IndependentCynic

    IndependentCynic Active Member

    Allowing the Board to make wholesale changes to the AIs and BLs without member concurrence was our downfall, which is what the quorum change from 100 ensured. The director who told us in the 2009 meeting (just before they changed the quorum) that "we (the Directors) can do anything we want" proved himself correct -- they changed the quorum (and lied about why). Then they changed the AIs and BLs to ensure they had even greater control.

    The directors seem to be driven to act tribally -- in unison even when they are in deference to member input. They portend to believe complaining members are in the minority, that those not complaining de-facto agree with the board. Surely they know that's patently false. Most members tuned out long ago knowing the board doesn't listen anyway, so why bother -- the reality is the board has no idea how members feel and has never had an interest in finding out. Honestly, it's a wonder things aren't worse -- maybe climate change and water shortages will show them a reality they can't ignore. Unfortunately we the members will be assessed to pay for whatever the big special interests want, not the general membership.

    I reside here and I like/support most of my neighbors and the community. But -- I haven't respected, nor trusted, the RCSC for over a decade. Consequently I never recommend anyone move to SC and make sure they know their signing a blank check to support the RCSC if they do.

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