RCSC Exchange meeting, held on Monday, May 13, 2024 in the Sundial Auditorium. 2:14:36 About 50 members in attendance, 25 spoke from the podium. Here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdLy0Uy9sKWCJNLz37tn5ug
The views expressed herein are my own and do not reflect views others have of the meeting. Overall, until the last speaker the exchange meeting was civil. Some folks expressed concerns and others had questions. I felt all that took the time to speak had genuine questions or concerns. The themes that seemed to resonate the most were the Thunderbird property, the libraries, communication/engagement and planning. On the Thunderbird property it was made clear this Board would make the purchase decision but stated they valued input from members. On the libraries, management stated that they expect to conclude negotiations on a five year lease well in advance of the year end lease expiration period. The issues in the negotiation were not clarified. On the communication and engagement front it appeared there was a gap between members expectations and management's action plan. However, this appears to be a work in progress so hopefully the gap will be narrowed. On the planning front there seems to be a lot of confusion on what the plan is. I and others recommended hiring a recreational planning expert to guide the process to a professional result. I sensed our GM took this as an affront to his authority the same way he took my motion to deliver a long-range plan. Now two last points: The VP did a great job of explaining the representative form of government RCSC operates under. She also mentioned that the board is faced with a squeaky wheel syndrome where a small group of organized members request great sums of member's money to enhance their activities facilities and claim they represent 80% of the members. While not mentioned, there are currently several apparent squeaky wheels commanding (demanding) a great deal of resources for their own activity. I would also add that the "hidden" agendas of the representatives can corrupt the representative form of government. For representative government to work there has to be a hierarchy: the civil servants (employees) answer to the elected representatives (Board members) who answer to the people (members). Lastly, I am completely fed up with the screaming antics of one member who spoke last at this meeting. They always lead off with I wasn't going to speak today and then launch into a screaming tirade about this, that or the other thing claiming to be the heart and soul of Sun City. I am embarrassed and sickened by these uncivil spectacle's. I cannot imagine the shock prospective members experience when they see this. To close, one of the original sales pitches for sun city was that for a dream to become reality there had to be a solid plan in place and Dell Webb had a team of experts to develop that plan. I don't think we can expect volunteers from all walks of life to have that level of expertise and so I highly recommend hiring an expert.
It's no secret I don't like that man. He says it's because of something from 2008. It's not. It's something SINCE 2008 when I met him. He talks like that all the time. It's his MO. He should not be representing Sun City. He started in the minute I signed into this group and all the sheep followed along. I will not back down from bullies. Never have never will. Everyone here got angry because I defended myself. Just look at who you worship! He looked like a crack addict who just ran out of drugs. He is the reason I have come to dislike this community so much. His anger towards me goes back years to FB days. I have 17 years of Sun Health Foundation experience and would have given my resume if not for him. No wonder this place is going to hell. People running it think nothing of saying things like no one gives a sh*t about you or stuff that in your thigh folds if they are not hanging too low. They demean, belittle and talk in hate language. Every board meeting I have been in for 17 years with Sun Health had members with class. Professional people, doctors, owners of companies. Not one of them would speak/act like that. I have been digging into documents on this site and I am amazed and appalled at what I have found. A group of us who meet regularly talk about exactly this. He is why they stopped going to board meetings years ago. Even the plumber who was here was talking about his customers wanting to move. Don't take my word, you have two former board members who know every damn thing there is to know about every damn thing.
You made some good points, John. I'm sure I heard Matthew say that in the 2025 budget there are dollars are proposed for those very important "expert resources" to do just what you suggest - hire the right people to provide the skills needed to develop the comprehensive master plan we have all been clamoring for. In a perfect world, it would have been done years ago and updated as our needs change. Like many things that were not considered important in the past, for whatever reasons, it just wasn't done. In 2023 change began to happen and while it may not be fast enough or smooth enough, and all the boxes aren't checked, there is progress. As the budget and five-year+ plan begins to roll out in the next couple of months members should start to see the first big steps in a refreshed RCSC operating plan start to unfold.
I was a little confused with the GM's explanation? He spoke about "by the end of the year" which sounded a lot like December to me but the County's end of their fiscal year is the end of July? More double-talk?
I heard members ask about the number of “incident” reports made at Fairway and other rec center areas. They were told the reports were confidential. Okay fine, but all they wanted were the number of incidents. What is the problem? Tell us the number. Not that difficult unless one doesn’t know the number.
I agree, Tom. Releasing the number of incidents doesn't violate any confidentiality laws. Is it three or thirty during the past year? Or they could give us a range. (Example: Between 5 and 10 or 45-50.) I sense it was more of an excuse than a real reason for wanting to close the Fairway Library and now they are having to backtrack. I have visited the Fairway Library and recreation center on numerous occasions. The library itself has a bathroom so there is no reason for library patrons to use those in the recreation centers. To enter the showers and restrooms, a person needs to go past the current check in desk. Unless there is a line waiting to check in, the monitors should be able to stop anyone who hasn't checked in with them. I know that I have checked in when getting a massage which is the same way you enter the showers. Now I admit that someone could go to the club spaces on the first and second floors without the monitors seeing them. Again, how big of a problem is it? With the information we have, we don't know. I think it is imperative that we are informed before they spend a great deal of money moving the desk. I have never felt in danger when visiting that recreation center and/or library. Is this just a knee jerk reaction to one or two incidents? How serious were they? We were told about the person who brought a stun gun to the dog park and no one seemed concerned about breaking confidentiality rules. How is this different?
Eileen with all due respect did you forget about this post of yours? If we don't address current issues and fix them how will we be able to afford more and more properties? SC can't just keep spending on new buildings. If you lived in another area of SC would you be as concerned about the T-Bird building? Your single statement highlighted in red is the exact opposite of what you are praising Bill for saying. "Hello, I have concerns about the detiorating shopping centers in the Sun City area. I am thinking about the property conditions and lack of offerings at the center at 99th ave. and Bell ( where McDonald's ) is. The parking lot looks bad. I have reported it in the past to management company. Also the marquee sign was hit by a truck or something. The marquee sign is a disgrace and looks bad. But more concerning to me is the lack of any nice offerings in these centers for retired folks who have money to spend. You have no nice vendors in these centers now, especially when Tuesday Morning store went under. Now you have smoke shops, tattoo parlors, marijuana shops. What happened to ice cream shops, women and men's dress shops, gift shops, furniture stores, snack shops. The decline in our American culture and seeing this is what really makes me unhappy. How can we get back the lovely culture we grew up with? I encourage everyone to contact these management companies for these centers. If you see something, let them know. The only way we can start to change our world is by letting them know we deserve better. Sun City citizens deserve better and nicer offerings in our area!" Eileen McCarty, Apr 10, 2024
First you know my name. 2nd you made every point I have been saying. 3rd Do you think newcomers who watch that tantrum will be impressed? We have $20 mil in deferred maintenance now. Our current buildings need repair. This building has been vacant for 9 years. No one can make a decision to buy or not based on what it looks like from the outside. No one had had anyone assess the building condition, and if they have it has been hidden from members. (not surprising) You did not answer my question...If you lived elsewhere in SC would you be as concerned? Modest residents? Bill said there are millionaires here, and I am sure there are. Did you know RCSC made a "proposal (non-binding supposedly) to the owners of the building? I did not until I watched the video. I posted this a while back. You asked for my thoughts so I will re-post. Stop the mad government-like spending, stop making decision for the members (libraries), however I really think that is a moot point after reading SCA recent blog here: https://suncityadvocates.blogspot.com/2024/04/from-adversity-to-opportunity.html#more Sambo said: ↑ Money. The answer is money (and some greed mixed in by business owners). You can't compare the economics of 40 years ago to today. People move to Sun City because it is "affordable." They don't have the money to support establishments like in the past. Fees for everything far outweigh what people are bringing in. More than you probably know are in survival mode. SCHOA can't even get people to pay $25 a year for a membership. Residents balk at raising fees by $50 a year but want everything to look pristine (on someone else's dime). Actual cities have more $ from sales and property taxes to keep things on the up-and-up. Sun City doesn't have that luxury and depends a lot on its community members. And that is how the community members have wanted it since the beginning. Incorporation would most likely be what helps. A good part of Sun City West is incorporated with Surprise. Yes. We really need to face facts. When boomers started to retire they wanted newer and better. The ones with money are in Scottsdale, Paradise Valley or Grand and further West. My sis lives in PV and just walks to a great strip mall with antique shops and farmers markets. Her kids think Sun City is the most depressing town they have ever been to. Sun City is old and tired. It's just a town that was once special a long time ago. It's not quaint, it will never be a favorite destination for travel. All the cute little shops are gone along with a lot of restaurants and grocery stores. North of Grand those little shops are now huge MOB's. South of Grand pretty much all is gone with the exception of the homes. Not going to lose any sleep over it. Not one member of my family is clamoring to inherit my home. Money, yes. the house nope! Happy Hippie, May 4, 2024 #29 Janet Curry likes this
I agree about security and safety, however we are unincorporated and MSCO has bigger fish to catch outside of Sun City. They will answer a call regarding a shooting in Surprise before a call from SC regarding a trespasser. All we have is our awesome Posse members who do a lot but can't really protect us. I don't know the actual crime stats of Sun City but crimes I hear or read about are petty thefts and trespassing. I also don't know how buying the TBird building will keep us safer. It was stated at the meeting that homeless are using Mt. View to clean themselves up so what would stop them from using any other facility for that purpose? They may be using the TBird building right now. The only way we can have real protection is to incorporate and have access to a police department that will patrol our area on a regular basis, and that will not happen. What would you suggest for safe solutions? Maybe a shelter is needed? I have volunteered at shelters on Holidays and the people are very nice. There but for the Grace of God go I. I don't have any answers.
Not negative at all. Factual. Protect the community from what exactly? The building has been there since 1985 or so, not really sure. What bad things have happened as a result of that building being there for the past 40 or so years. Even more pertinent what bad things have taken place there during the past 9 years while it has been vacant? I don't know the answer to that but if you do please share. Those people that were elected failed us for many years. Had that not happened buying the building might not even be a financial issue.
HH, you have no idea what you are getting into with incorporation. Ask Bill what’s in the museum from the incorporation kerfuffle in the 80’s. When May get police protection but at no small cost! Then they are the school taxes for the elementary and high schools. Then there is the fire department with paramedics. You whine about the rec fees, wait until you see your property taxes. These suckers will probably up each year because of negotiated contracts, pension contributions, special issue bonds. Basically a shit sandwich you do not want a bite of. Obviously you did not think this through if at all. Just another knee jerk reaction.
Eieleen McCarty - please provide statistics/data on any incidents encountered at the tbird property. Your agenda appears to be keep everybody and everything out of sun city so you can feel safe. Purchasing that building/s will be very costly for sun city even if they knock it down and build else. I will venture a guess and and say that most members moved here because it was the cheapest place to move to and get all the amenities they would ever want for a pittance. For as long as I have lived here sun city was known as the cheapest place to retire. Sun City has many more pressing problems to even consider purchasing a complex that no one else was interested in. in the event sun city does purchase that property, expect your assessment to increase by at least 100.00 or more and then listen everyone say"don't raise assessments. I'm on a fixed income".
Hello I never said that incidents were occurring. My assessment and opinion is based on that about 5 years ago a company was going to come in and use the building as a drug/alcohol rehab hospital facility. The residents in the area did not want this to happen, and the rejection went to Clint Hickman desk, and meetings were held, and it was stopped. Since then, the concern of that lingers that we would not want that to happen again. In my opinion, I would like to see RCSC consider buying it, if possible, because it would ensure that this sort of thing could not come into the neighborhood. That is solely what I mean about securing the neighborhood, not based on any other reason than this.
You don't even read my posts do you. It's just a "get Josie no matter what. Here it is AGAIN. But you all just keep putting words in my mouth. It's similar to a high school, or even grade school mentality. Let's all gang up on the one who doesn't think like us. Maybe he/she will leave. It's a little Dictatorship. I am going to step down to your mentality level and say too bad my "knee jerk" reaction didn't get you in the groin area, however the target is probably nonexistent. "I agree about security and safety, however we are unincorporated and MSCO has bigger fish to catch outside of Sun City. They will answer a call regarding a shooting in Surprise before a call from SC regarding a trespasser. All we have is our awesome Posse members who do a lot but can't really protect us. I don't know the actual crime stats of Sun City but crimes I hear or read about are petty thefts and trespassing. I also don't know how buying the TBird building will keep us safer. It was stated at the meeting that homeless are using Mt. View to clean themselves up so what would stop them from using any other facility for that purpose? They may be using the TBird building right now. The only way we can have real protection is to incorporate and have access to a police department that will patrol our area on a regular basis, and that will not happen. What would you suggest for safe solutions? Maybe a shelter is needed? I have volunteered at shelters on Holidays and the people are very nice. There but for the Grace of God go I. I don't have any answers."
HH, I did read your post including the screaming Red Caps included in this one. I believe that you know the answer to his question, what travels faster in Sun City, a Ferrari, a rumor or the truth? When one person (being metaphorical here) throws out something like incorporation even if said it will not happen there will be some saying why not. I was merely pointing out, in a less diplomatic way, the down sides of incorporation. For heaven’s sake FYI on anther thread was throwing out a scenario where a majority of the members dissolve the corporation (RCSC) and essentially annexed to Peoria. Get my point? You apparently are a bit hypersensitive, fine. I have never threatened you other than saying things that are patently untrue. I am not trying to gang up on you, make you move away or anything else. Like you, I am from Chicago and we have a certain swagger, plus you work with attorneys for over 40 years and see what kind of attitude you have. Have a positive day.
You do not have swagger and do not include me with you as a "we" ever. Harrison Ford has swagger along with Dean Martin, Cary Grant, Sean Connery. All you have are excuses for your hate speech. You are just an ego maniac who thinks all Sun City Residents are "obtuse at best". Just the fact that you think I would do anything at all due to what you say or do is laughable.
