It's Not Even About Golf Anymore?

This thread has been widely read and followed, as much so as any of late. I will at some point, as we approach the return of the member/board exchange meeting in September, reduce my thoughts in writing in a letter to the editor at the Independent newspaper. I feel that strongly about the board and managements decision to "give away" our golf courses to outsiders, It is simply wrong.

For those curious beyond this thread, there is an interesting discussion brewing in another just started. You can find it here and travels a slightly different road. Click here to read more.

 

So all three existing candidates are running? I knew that Steve was and Darla was at two candidate sessions, but I hadn't heard about VP Ege.

 

Yes! Bill, please do submit your thoughts in a letter to the editor at the Independent. They "throw" approximately 22,000 issues each week to homes in the Sun City area plus they are available at various stands within the community. Many of the golfers in Sun City probably have no idea of what is going on.

The other thing that needs to be publicized is the next Golf Advisory Committee Meeting. The RCSC website was updated recently with the meetings of all committees for September and the one for Golf is Thursday, September 15th at 8:30 a.m. at the Lakeview Board room (2nd floor). Any golfer who is interested in what the Board decided in June should be in attendance.

 

Per Bill's nudging from a different post I'll submit my two cents worth regarding the golfing issue relating to "outsiders" of Sun City walls.

There is only one signed document between a Sun City property owner and RCSC. The Facilities Agreement is basically the contract between us and them. That contract has MUTUAL agreements and obligations. Simply put you agree to pay certain fees and follow their rules and they agree "To operate the recreational facilities for the BENEFIT of homeowners and residents of Sun City".

There is no doubt in my mind that RCSC is violating the terms of the contract with their actions regarding their fee structure and outsider "priority of use" over Sun City homeowners and residents. Any member of the RCSC Board of Directors that believes otherwise or does nothing to correct this violation should be "recalled" or voluntarily resign. Any senior RCSC management approving and implementing this violation needs to be terminated.

The above thoughts are mine alone and I am sure can be dismantled by anyone who wants to waste their time doing so. My desire to fight board members has waned over the last 5 years and obviously wasn't strong enough to last even a year as a board member. Gary Cotten

 

Thanks Gary, we haven't always agreed but i have always respected your position. In fact, you did a far better job than i in spelling out the legal obligations between the members and the RCSC via their facilities agreement. I never even considered that. Over all of the years Sun City has been around, there's never been a time when board members tried to give away Sun Cities Amenities. Never.

Take care brother and hope you guys are doing good.

 

Based on a comment/question asked on the Sun City Advocates page, i forced myself to watch the June board meeting. You know, the one where the general manager and the director of golf told us golf was profitable. The back and forth exchange was painful to watch. Painful.

Board members were more worried about whether the managements teams decisions were being challenged? Karen McAdam summarized it all when she inquired why the decisions being made weren't prioritizing the members instead of the non-residents? They simply didn't understand this wasn't a financial issue, it was about members rights ahead of non-members. Director Nowakowski asked if the management team could set the TAG system to allow non-members not sign in until 4 days ahead of their tee time and the answer was yes but Bill Cook said it would mean more work. The real reason they don't want to do it is because it would kill sales of full play passes to non-residents.

Finally, Director Collins summed it all up with this statement: If you vote for my motion, you are voting for listening to what the members are saying; if you vote against it, you are not listening. Clearly, they weren't listening.

 

I mentioned the Sun City Advocates blog above and while i suspect many of you are familiar with it, some may not be. We were fairly quiet during the summer months, a nice reprieve while we are tried to survive the 110 plus degree days. Now, as we look to closing out 2022, the pace is going to pick up. Lots to do between now and the December holidays; most of which hopefully includes many if not all of you paying attention to what is going on with the RCSC.

I've been writing for years, Sun City is special, unique in the way we were built. Interestingly enough, Sun City West enjoyed close to the same structure. Ironically they went one way, we (Sun City) went the other. They celebrated and promoted that members were the owners. The RCSC elected to call us "card-holders," and to add to that status, they flushed out the safe guards built into the community documents. The RCSC became singularly the controlling body; the membership's voice was relinquished.

With the introduction of the member/board exchange, we hoped that would change. It was our (the memberships') opportunity to have their voices heard. We had high hopes. In April, we saw the membership show up in force. They had issues, important ones. None more so than the problems that were related to our golf courses and access. The members that spoke put it right where it belonged; in the hands of the board members to decide.

By June, they proclaimed the golf problems were resolved. Really? They made a minor tweak in outside tournament play and they proposed a tiny increase in full play passes. They raised the price in July, but they still allowed outsiders to access our web portal the same as members. They still were getting rates far lower than the membership and they were still being guaranteed a golf car for less money than members paid. Anyone interested in debating these issues?

Those are simply the facts. They did nothing, to stop the give-away of the members amenities. NOTHING. Come the September 12 member/board exchange, this should be a front burner topic. It should become the criteria used to determine who to vote for in the RCSC elections for board candidates this fall. You can read the Sun City Advocates blog, hot button take here. It's well worth your time.

 

And it's not quite as simple as what we pay for golf and what an outsider will pay! We, the Members, have already paid our annual $496 in addition to paying an additional fee for golf!

 

I would love to see the real numbers invested by members on golf; both PIF and from yearly assessments. As Carole Martinez said on the Sun City Advocates blog, the only way we would ever really know is with a deep financial dive, but even then the numbers wouldn't be pure. There's been a massive effort to keep that buried as deep as possible. All of which highlights my biggest argument with golf; transparency should always how they function. And to be clear, that's not on the golfers, but on management.

 

Bill, you’re beating a dead horse. The only way this is going to change is to get control of the BOD. Otherwise it’s going to continue to be business as usual.

 

Which is why i am picking up a packet this coming week. I absolutely don't want to waste three more years of my life serving on a board where i get to vote no on doing stupid shit because that's what the gm wants done. That said, i refuse to let them maintain control where they just act as if there is nothing wrong with giving away our assets. As i wrote the other day, there will be at least three quality candidates to choose from who believe the community should have a voice.

 

I am so glad to hear Bill, that you are picking up a packed and making a conscious decision to challenge, once again, the status quo. I know this is not a decision you made lightly nor are you willing to stand idly by and watch the baord continue its decent into the cesspool of power and control it has become over the last number of years. I, for one, am thrilled with your choice to take on the RCSC board and once again, place your stamp of community spirit directly on the heart of what should be the power of the membership.

I so look forward to your brand of leadership which is a no-nonsense approach to business and the budget. There is such a great need for your determination and fortitude to bring the light of day into the RCSC board room and enusre the membership starts to recive the representation it so sorely needs since having its members rights stripped from them by the management team. I so look forward to your insight and guidance to the existing board members, as it is clear, they are not concerned about the members or their needs.

I know this was not your first choice as a resolution to the outstanding issues. but I am surely grateful you are going to, once again, be a voice of reason for the community.

 

That worked out really freaking well... they raised the price of full play non-resident golf passes in July and sold more than they did the month of July the year before. Perfect. Here's a clue for the clueless...this angst has nothing to do with the revenue...it's the fact you are giving away our amenities. God help us they are this dumb. Sales in July 2022-$25,003. Sales in July 2021-$19,166. Part of it is due to the higher cost ($250), the other is 1 or 2 more passes sold from the year before.

By the way, year to date actual as of July 2022-$177,103, Year to date actual as of July 2021-$125,125. This is why this shit storm exploded like it did: The more of these non-resident full play passes they sell, the less prime time tee times go to members. That says nothing to the problem of the entire membership subsidizing golf for those living outside the walls using our amenities and paying less than most residents pay to golf on our own amenities.

It's painful to watch. Truly painful.

 

Bill, I think that is the best move you can make. These next 3 years can be the best years of your life!! We need a majority of free-thinking board members who can give the members back their voices and are willing to listen and act on the desires of the membership. You know the history and that is what worked for years. I believe that is what the membership is looking for. I also commend Jean for throwing her hat into the race. Good luck to both of you along with Steve.

 

Kind words Carol but what we know from Sun City's amazing history is this. It doesn't matter who runs, what matters is what they stand for. We were told loudly and clearly in June, several of the board members were more worried about managements feelings than members rights. Insanity at its finest.

Members matter; they always have, they always should come first.

 

Once Again.
Where can I get a packet??????

 

Once again...the corporate office located at the Lake View Rec center.

 

As the time runs down towards picking up a packet to run in the coming RCSC election, everyone interested in Sun City and our governance should be focused on one thing. This will be my criteria on whether i stay in the race or drop out and let younger members with more vibrant ideas carry the mantel. My driving factors will be predicated on this and it is a very simple:
1). The candidate believes that members matter and that our amenities belong to each and every one of us who paid for them.
Or,
2). They believe the management team has the right to sell our amenities off to those living outside the community. To let outsiders come into Sun City and use the golf courses for less money than we pay, have access to prime time tee times equal or better than the members and be guaranteed a golf car for a fraction of what members pay to rent them.

This isn't rocket science folks. Over the years, the standard pap was "better communication" and more "transparency." Most of which was abandoned once they got elected. Either they believe members matter, or they don't.

 

Damn. I just wrote my Letter to the Editor at the Independent newspaper that will come out a week from this Monday (not tomorrow). If i have learned nothing else in my lifetime, it's the importance of timing. My initial reaction after the June board meeting was to write a scathing letter regarding the boards actions; better stated, their in-action in June to address the problems coming from non-resident golf.

For some reason, beyond my comprehension, several of them feel it's just fine to give away our amenities to outsiders. Never in our history were board members of the RCSC willing to compromise the values and tenets we were founded under and built around. Never. Sadly, that's what happens when you lose sight of our history and operate in a vacuum. When you begin turning to newly hired management who think they know how it works.

When i say these things, i almost always think back to last September's first board meeting back that month. That time when one person didn't get the memo and held up a sign. Rather than telling her to put it down, the president killed the meeting and stormed off stage. One sign. Go freaking figure.

That's not even the worst part. My real angst came when the general manager told the police officers they had hired to clear the room or we would all be arrested. I'm still dumbfounded by that. I intervened and walked over to talk to the deputies. They told me the gm claimed we were on private property and were trespassing. As we talked, they told me the gm told them this was like a gym membership and we were on private property.

Which started me down the history road and what in fact what Sun City was, and was not. Any comparison to a gym membership was nonsense. In fact, anyone who even begins to suggest that, simply doesn't understand. Clearly the cops were confused by the argument and apparently the newly installed general manager came to understand the optics of arresting 100 members gathered in a meeting room we were part owners of (i know, that hate when i say that).

The general manager changed his mind and told us we could stay if we remained civil. Good decision. We talked for about an hour and nothing was resolved. In the coming months, the Sun City Advocates would be born, Karen would be re-elected and we would all plod forward. Through 2022, we would disagree often. Nothing wrong with healthy disagreement. It usually forges better outcomes.

After finishing my letter to the editor, i will tell you this; there is no "healthy disagreement" when it comes to what is going on with golf and outsiders stepping on our courses for less money. We'll never come to a consensus on the value of those living outside the walls enjoying what we have all paid for. None. Never. Nada. There's not a logical argument to be made about what is going on. If you tell me you are worried about losing the revenue from outsiders, it's a load of crap.

The simple truth is, those full play passes purchased by outsiders are just golfers taking tee times members would more often than not fill. I have no problem (nor do most RCSC members) have a problem with outsiders filling unsold tee times. They need to pay the full price for public play and they should only be allowed to book tee times after members have first option. They should never be guaranteed a golf car ahead of a member and should never get a break on the price. That's how Sun City West does it, that's how Sun City Grand does it and there's not a reason on this earth why we have elected to give away an amenity we have invested this much in.

People like to talk about the RCSC like it is an organization unto itself. It's not, they exist for a single purpose; for the members. The minute they give away what we own, they are in violation of the Articles of Incorporation. Sadly, it's pretty clear, they don't care what the Articles say as they have ignored them all too often.

 

Not to change the subject but...

First of all, I'm not a lawyer but I sure would like a legal opinion on this! First of all, we're constantly reminded that our $496 annual assessment is NOT a recreation fee and we are required to pay that assessment whether or not we use any of the amenities or facilities. Perhaps if we did pay a "users" fee then it could be viewed as a gym membership?

Second. The Assessments that we pay every year are for the RCSC to provide us with those amenities and facilities, so in reality, aren't those facilities, such as the Sundial Rec Center OUR private property? We paid for them! In my opinion, of course they are and that's why outsiders aren't allowed to use them!

Just my opinion!