The bastards did it!

Discussion in 'Sun City General Discussions' started by FYI, Jun 27, 2021.

  1. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    That was exactly the case FYI. Sun City, as non-profit corporation, had no ability to benefit from either the tax credits or rebate incentives, so the best option was a lease with a buy-out feature. The lease kept us from incurring debt to force a vote and got us in the solar game. Oddly, the folks living here appreciated the covered parking as much as the solar.

    Unfortunately the lease agreement we reached was a committee of one and there has been a myriad of problems since installation. The inverters have been a disaster and the panels have been under-performing. That of unto itself would be bad enough but there's a bigger issue. While still on the board, we had approved a buyout after 66 months and it was projected to be 4.2 million dollars (from PIF). That was what we were given and was what we approved as a board.

    Shortly after we paid it off we were told it was actually going to be 5.2 million dollars. I asked the gm how that could possibly happen and she simply said those numbers were never "firm." Now i am hearing rumors the payoff was something north of 7 million. Haven't seen it yet but if and when they release those figures hopefully some one can confirm or deny it...and if it is true, explain how the bleep that could happen?
     
  2. FYI

    FYI Well-Known Member

    Perhaps those were the same answers Barbara Brehm was searching for and caused her terminated?
     
  3. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Perhaps FYI. When she asked for the audited statement and got that and the auditors notes she saw several items that concerned her. Given her background she was used to seeing these kinds of reports and immediately started asking questions of fellow board members. She was pretty convinced they would have at least a passing interest in jointly asking questions and getting answers to either put the concerns to bed or stimulate more dialogue. Foolishness on her part because what they did so is circle the wagons and promptly kick her to the curb.

    In case you aren't aware, board members have a fiduciary obligation to ask questions when they see things that don't make sense. No one is accusing anyone of anything other than the board acted in a manner wholly inappropriate for a board. Over the years, boards have taken the gm's information as gospel. Questioning it isn't grounds for termination, it's one of their obligations.

    The more we talk about this, the more the two terminations seems to fit into an ugly structure of control and very little to do with self-governance.
     
  4. IndependentCynic

    IndependentCynic Active Member

    Those were indeed turbulent times -- ARS's constant complaining, members asserting all sorts of things would affect property values, factions watching every detail of the RCSC budget, questions about what was/wasn't an expenditure that could be funded with PIF money, realtors throwing logs on the fire against raising the PIF (I can't be sure, but I think the PIF increased twice during the FAIRWAY fiasco?), golfers complaining they weren't getting their share and claimed people wouldn't move here without better golf while others lobbied for dog parks and green spaces. Back then Member meetings actually drew crowds occasionally, the local papers were flooded with opinion letters and the Independent's online forum became pretty vocal at times. Sadly, the members never organized sufficiently to be effective and the RCSC rewrote the BLs to throw hurdles in any attempt to do so.
     
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  5. FYI

    FYI Well-Known Member

    I'm at a new community in Florida right now where there will eventually be 2000 homes and they already have 8 pickleball courts. That's one court for every 250 residents!
     
  6. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    ARS could have been a force to reckon with, had she not made it appear the end game was an expensive and foolish lawsuit. The tragedy of her actions were the board to buy into the necessity of changing the by-laws to save us from ourselves. I met with her a couple of times to encourage working from within but that clearly wasn't in her interests. The near on 20 year battle resulted in significant legal costs to us (via the RCSC) and for hundreds of Sun City residents who contributed to her, another boatload of wasted dollars. All for naught.

    Worse yet, we now have a board and a gm who appear immune to the community at large. Imagine if the outcome 12 years ago before documents were rewritten, had been to fall under Title 33; the way they are running the community would be wholly different. Sun City West cannot do business behind closed doors or emails that dictate actions. As i sit here typing, i can only guess, speculate what the board is doing over the summer break. Do i actually believe they aren't conducting business? Nope, not for one second. Are decisions being made that none of us have any idea of? Absolutely, 100%.

    Some have argued my "negativism" is harmful to the community. Some that used to post here have quit because of it. Through every year of my commentary i've always been supportive of the Sun City way of life. My lament has been this and it still is: We are a great place to live, we could be so much better.
     
  7. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    No surprise FYI, almost every age restricted community in the country has their marketing and future tied to large numbers of pickleball courts. On the other hand, golf is avoided like the plague. How the hell did we get so upside down?
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2021
  8. IndependentCynic

    IndependentCynic Active Member

    You an I and many others here pushed hard for T33. The board, GM, and others were adamantly against it for reasons that never made sense to me. I myself believed it was always, in part, a way for the RCSC to cover their mistakes and do whatever the good ole boys wanted. Eg, had Wellman's actions in the Fairway project been open to public scrutiny there would have been hell to pay. And the truth about golf finances would likely have caused some big changes changes, too. "How the hell did we get so upside down?" Well, 8 courses in SC, 7 courses in SCW, 4 courses in SCG, ... seems like even before pickleball became a big deal Dell Web saw the reality that golf was in decline. If you look at DW communities in other parts of the country many rely on public courses nearby. Eventually the RCSC and the SC community will have no choice but to reconcile having too many golf courses. Ten years or so ago I recommended the RCSC should start working in the courts toward getting the deed restrictions changed that mandated the courses remain golf courses forever. AFAIK that fell on deaf ears, yet the number of golfers has continued to decline, the available water has continued to decline, etc. Regardless how deep they put their little heads in the sand, eventually it has to happen -- either the RCSC resolves the deed restrictions, or they revert the property to DelWebb/Pulte. What isn't sustainable is to continue to charge the members for the rapidly rising cost of maintaining golf as we know it.
     
  9. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    The answer to your question IC as to why they fought so hard to stay under Title 10 is control. The entire premise of our documents was a shared responsibility and a common vision with the members (owners). From a historical perspective DEVCO had worked with those living here to create a document that served us well. Meeker desperately wanted us to become incorporated but those living in the community had a different vision. The documents prevented us from becoming another Surprise, Peoria or Glendale with internal bureaucracies and ever bloating tax base. By assuming many of those responsibilities we were able to keep us affordable and different.

    Once the new gm was hired, she quickly found the board had restraints on her. Over time, she got rid of the old guard and replaced upper management with her own people; loyal to one thing and one thing only, her. Nothing wrong with that as long as the board still acted as the buffer, the contact point and representative of the community at large. Unfortunately her vision was contain and control as she minimized the hours board members would have to put in. It was a tradeoff that suited the boomers perfectly.

    The greatest generation was wholly different than us boomers. You can see the outcome. Virtually everything has been dictated and hand-picked by management. The only exceptions has been when the gm has a president who has a pet project and then works in concert to make his wants come true. It's always been a quid pro quo arrangement. The end result is stuff gets done, but the question has always been, is it the stuff the community at large wants?

    Control in organizations means you get stuff done more quickly and without a lot of infighting. Members are quickly relegated to "card-holders" whose most apparent stake is pay your fees so they can take care of you. The fly in the ointment is invariably the rogue board member who won't play along to get along. Back in the day, they used to just put up with our no votes and do whatever they pleased. These days, i guess the idea that someone isn't marching along in lock-step is unacceptable. Especially if they start looking into aspects of running the community that board members typically ignore.

    Karen and Barbara are simply a result of how the concept of self-governance has been reduced to a mere shadow of its former self. It's why i still follow Sun City West closely. They opted to follow Title 33 and their meetings are open and everything is put in front of the membership. It doesn't eliminate problems, it simply addresses them in a different (better) way.
     
  10. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    I know i neglected your comments regarding golf IC; my bad. I always try and respect things i am told in confidence. Over the years i have been told things that leave me troubled but i always tell those talking to me that it will remain between us. Of late, i have seen comments that would imply "they" (the board) knows golf is going to be an explosive issue but refuse to deal with it. While that seems like a small step, it's far larger than one would think. Most have always assumed they could just ignore it.

    There's always been a reason to elect folks to the board who are in lock step with management. Some years it's a given, some years they get enough not to be concerned, some years they end up with the rogue who is going to start acting like a board member is supposed to. I've written this on this site too many times to count; golf is no longer self-sustaining like it was intended to be. They have hidden and buried numbers and consequently golfers are being subsidized.

    To be clear, that is not how the courses were transferred to us in 1977/1978. It was specifically written into the documents so that golf would not become a money pit for those who didn't play the game. We have the luxury of mediocre courses, but a lot of them. It gives golfers the option of a different course every day. Since the gm was hired she has controlled every aspect of the bookkeeping with not a whole lot of oversight. When Barbara saw that and got the audited statements it raised red flags. Not because there was anything wrong necessarily but because her background was such that she saw the potential for errors or omissions. Going to board members was exactly the right course of action...it was in fact her duty and their solution was to fire her immediately.

    I know it will never happen, but there should be a forensic audit when Bill Cook takes over completely. It just makes sense. Golf and golfers will never agree to anything until and unless they are paying what they are supposed to or as a community we vote to subsidize golf. Hell, i'm not opposed to that (a vote), what i am opposed to is a management team and a board being complicit in working around what the documents called for.

    Firing board members who are doing what they were elected to do is simply wrong. Board members were elected by us to represent the community, not the management team.
     
  11. FYI

    FYI Well-Known Member

    If Bill Cook is smart he would insist on a forensic audit if for no other reason to protect his ass from things that may have been done before he even took the position of director of finance. Let's just hope he didn't fall for any of the board's or gm's shenanigan's!
     
  12. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Folks who follow this site know i love the history of Sun City. The better you understand it, the more you will appreciate just how special we are. I have had people tell me "you can't look back, we have to look forward." There's no point in arguing, a smart person will do both. In Bill Cook's case, there is nothing he can do about the past 15 years, nothing. And to be fair to the exiting gm, there is an abundance of good stuff; there's also things that have happened that have been buried or changes she made that will hurt us for years to come.

    There-in is the point of a forensic audit as the new gm takes charge. We need to know exactly where we are as we go forward. If we can at least start on a base-line with the actual cost of golf, we can begin to make long range plans regarding the sport and the related costs. We know the largest single problem we will have is the water issue. We have literally no control over what the state will force us to do. I'm not advocating anything more than boards and management being realistic and upfront about what is going on.

    Having board members who aren't just marching along in lock step is critical. Hopefully the new gm will be excited to see candidates who aren't just rubber-stampers but folks with open minds and who understand the importance of community engagement. It's how Sun City was built, it's why it was successful. Melding the past with the future is our best way out of the challenges we will be facing.
     
  13. FYI

    FYI Well-Known Member

    Something interesting I just found out about the special meeting held in "executive session" from real live parliamentarians. Special meetings cannot take up any business that was not described in the call of the meeting, so nothing done at that meeting has any force or effect. It is entirely likely that the director has not been removed. (I can show you where it says it in RONR 12th ed.)

    The meeting that was called that terminated director McAdam DID NOT specify the business in the call of the meeting. Now, will the Board honor its parliamentary authority under Robert's Rules of Order or will they once again ignore the bylaws that they swore to uphold?

    If the board refuses to uphold their parliamentary authority at the September meeting then we, the Members, have every right to make a motion at the, rumored, planned October general membership meeting, providing we can acquire a quorum, to have her reinstated!
     
  14. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Yet again i yield to you when it comes to Roberts Rules, my knowledge is limited which puts me in the same class as the current board. Floundering along pretending at what they are doing is right. On the other hand i have a pretty good idea on they will respond. As you have noted, when mistakes have been made, they never try and "fix" it, they simply act as if it doesn't matter. They have been convinced they are a private not for profit corporation covered by Title 10 and feel they can do whatever and however the see fit.

    Sadly, they can, at least until the community holds them accountable for their actions; which was obviously your final point. Seems to me the push point will come at the two meetings in September. I can fairly well predict what will happen, but who knows, maybe they will have seen the error of their ways and Karen will be reinstated and they will find a solution for pickleballers' and hell as long as we are at it, the state will say "we don't care about water." Two quick speculations: don't hold your breath on 2 of the 3...you figure out which one it is.
     
  15. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    I think if there is any redeeming factors in Karen's firing, it has woken people up and perhaps even fired them up. Over the years those living here have moved away from participating in our governance. Some would argue they were pushed away and i would be hard-pressed to disagree. As i have written before, the true test will come September. Will people be back? Will people show up? Will they be angry or frustrated? Will it turn into a shit-show or will the board try and resolve the issues?

    All legitimate questions and all that will be answered in a scant 6 weeks.
     
  16. FYI

    FYI Well-Known Member

    And we will see in September if Admiral Yamamoto's prediction will once again come true, “I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve.” Let's hope this is a wake-up call to all future boards and Sun City residence, but just being pissed-off isn't going to fix the problem. There needs to be tangible consequences and remedies so the actions being done by a rogue out of control board, never happens again!
     
  17. FYI

    FYI Well-Known Member

    Here it is folks...and that goes for any of you Directors who may be monitoring this blog!

    Directly from the RCSC bylaws, Article V, Section 5: "Special Sessions of the Board may be called by the President or upon the written request of three (3) or more Board of Directors. The purpose of the meeting shall be stated in the call and posted on the RCSC website (www.suncityaz.org). Except in cases of emergency, at least seventy-two (72) hours’ notice shall be given."

    Did you get the part that says "the purpose of the meeting shall be stated in the call"? It doesn't say, should, could or maybe, it says shall, which makes that Special Session held in executive session NULL and VOID because the purpose of the meeting was not stated in the call!

    It's my opinion Director McAdam is STILL A DIRECTOR serving on the RCSC board of directors. Prove me wrong!
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2021
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  18. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    It would be really hard to argue a decision of this nature was an "emergency." The board was adjourned for the summer and with Karen leaving for a good portion of it, they could have easily left any actions until she got back. Of course the longer they waited the more hot the question would have been when they came back in September. I think your points are spot on FYI, but what we know from the current board is they just do what they want and act as if the rules don't apply to them. My guess is they probably don't care what your opinion is either, but that's just my humble speculation. Hope i'm wrong (said with a snarky smirk).

    Several letters to the editor again today in the Independent regarding Karen. Good points and all keeping this matter in front of residents. The one that threw me was a writer who suggested the board was considering a motion to keep banished board members from running. Can you imagine who dumb/desperate that would have looked? Hope they weren't aren't thinking about that, but nothing would surprise me after the past two years.
     
  19. FYI

    FYI Well-Known Member

    I had heard that same rumor from an unnamed reliable source. I can't begin to tell you how I feel about that sort of arrogance but who ever it was that suggested it should resign from the board! We certainly don't need director's who carry that sort of mentality.

    They dismissed McAdam using the excuse that she was unwilling or incapable of performing her duties but isn't that exactly the same thing board is doing when they refuse and are unwilling to follow their own bylaws? Hmmm!
     
  20. FYI

    FYI Well-Known Member

    With this Covid thing still hanging around and the decision by some of the local municipalities to wear masks again, it wouldn't surprise me if the September Board meetings suddenly get shut back down. That's one way to avoid the rage of the Membership for terminating Director McAdam!
     

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