The PAC - Final Destination

May I ask who keeps authorizing this same company to do these surveys? It’s fairly obvious they are not doing much good as far as feedback is concerned and I don’t find them well written to the information I would think we are seeking.
Once again, money drained from the budget and still ill conceived data collection.
Writing a survey geared towards an established audience is not that hard. Questions should be short, concise and fairly easy to understand. Why can’t we get this done in a way that actually reaches the audience and makes them feel as if their answers matter?

 

Geez! So at today's Exchange meeting it was brought up that a new building for the PAC will also require additional space for a retention pond, the cost of which is not included in the proposed $14 million dollars!

Just one more reason to use the existing SunDial location.

 

I thought the PAC was scrapped for now?

 

Oh goody! And the D&P shows continue....

 

After watching the exchange video, I wish I was a fly on the wall listening to the meetings the Board is having with the Architects. I suspect TRARC is asking for more money to conduct these listening sessions and now we are considering Bell as a location if RCSC builds a PAC. I, like FYI, still do not see the need for a PAC given that we already have one of the best performing arts centers in Arizona - It is called Sun Dial. I noted that one prominent member has taken up the rallying cry and told the Board to make scheduling adjustments to allow the Player's Club to perform their plays at Sun Dial.

 

John you are so kind. Although if you look at our previous private messages maybe not so much.

 

I'd still like to know what criteria the Board gave to triARC that after evaluating all the possible locations and hurdles that needed to be crossed for a stand-alone PAC, they ended up picking the Lawn Bowling courts at Lake View???

I would have thought that any responsible architectural firm would have suggested SunDial, not only because it checked practically every box, but it also provided more bang for the buck and satisfied the Board's fiduciary responsibility! I suppose they were just following directions? But I digress!

Where the hell did the Bell location suddenly come into the picture?

These people need to have their heads examined! If this is what they call responsible oversight of Member dollars, then perhaps that petition to recall the Director's was stopped too soon?

And if you attended or watched the video of the Exchange....how about that explanation that PIF dollars aren't really Member dollars? I guess that bucket of PIF and CIF dollars grows all by itself?

 

We need to talk maybe. Met with some folks. Not what you know, who you know and care about.

 

FYI - You are 100% correct that this Board/Management team is out to spend $14M of our money on a PAC because they can't (won't) schedule Sundial to allow for 12 amateur plays. When I went through the Board's "elements" for a theater there are only two that Sun dial does not or cannot meet. A sloped floor and an orchestra pit. Are these must haves for a club with 135 members? And we are spending how much on Architects to ask us what we want? Really. Oh wait, this is not our money it is PIF and CIF funds. huh? Some have suggested there are kickbacks involved but I do not want to believe that.

I am of the same opinion as you, Milt and many others that this is lunacy. I would prefer to break out of this cycle of insanity by having an expert develop a plan for what we need to stay relevant to our current and future members. It is called a master plan and, according to some, management has fought tooth and nail to make sure a master plan will not be developed. Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

 

Where the hell did the Bell location suddenly come into the picture?

Bell came into the picture when I mentioned it. Bell was the original site chosen by Devco all those many years ago. Not trying to muddy the waters, just refresh the memory of the site being brought up before.

 

Not quite true. It was originally planned to be built on the property located on the corner of Bell and 99th that is now the strip mall. When the Rec Center being built had a cost overrun, they could no longer afford to build the PAC so they sold the property.

 

Orchestra pits are truly the pits.

As a former amateur orchestra player, I am seriously wondering why a senior community would want to add a dangerous pit to any venue. I have played in pits. They are dangerous to the musician, the musicians instrument, the actors and the patrons. Musician falls and damage to instruments just begin to scratch the surface.

While it may be a romanticized ideal, the reality is: they are just a hazard. If the players wish to hold musicals, then place the musicians on the floor in front of the stage. Yes the audience will be further back however in reality the audience enjoys seeing the musicians and it enhances the experience.

There isn't anything at this point in my life that would convince me to climb back down into one of those death traps even if I brought my pit violin that has had its fair share of scars.

A point to ponder and discuss the costs of insuring that hazard and mitigation of hazards to own and operate a pit.

 

Retractable theater style seating can replace the need for a sloped floor.

I can understand that! And how would that affect our insurance policy? $$$$

 

The Bell Center had $5 million dollars in overruns and the dream was dead. The rest of the story from newspaper reports of the day is the RCSC was delighted the 1800 seat performing arts center was scrapped. The cost of maintaining a property of that size and the parking lot that would have taken up a large share of what is now the shopping center was way more than they wanted to deal with. The Bell center was already bigger than anything else they owned.

John Meeker long contended in his interviews Sun City would one day have a PAC. Those were clearly different times and theater was more a thing. John Fast and other's argue the question; do we really need one? Fair question and i've fallen down on the idea we need comfortable seating for members but not one that becomes one dimensional.

Gary Osher has spent copious amounts of time and energy researching retractable seating and it sounds like the best solution. I also liked Cheryl's remarks about the folly of an orchestra pit. We know the RCSC, like all of us, have experienced exploding insurance costs. Doing anything that increases them is crazy.

 

Bill,

You are correct I argue that Sun City already has a PAC called Sun Dial and should not spend $14M ++ (money that came from you and me) to build another one. Many have been speaking up about that recently. I have been willing to take the slings and arrows of those who are advocating this project.

My own view is Sun City has yet to come to grips with what it can afford given the future repair and maintenance bills it will have to pay. While I am intellectually curious about the social economic microcosm we call Sun City, I am very concerned about the perpetual mismanagement we have experienced and the financial cost of that mismanagement. One need only look at the recently redone and now cracking Bell Parking lot and the renovated Bell bathrooms that are now leaking and closed to see how our management and Board willingly accept shoddy workmanship as a given. At the same time management is spending oodles on process consultants and architects when we don't even have a master plan. To top it off RCSC is talking about building grand new special purpose structures (a PAC, indoor dog facility and indoor pickleball courts) and buying other facilities (the Thunderbird property) and has not even bothered to estimate how much it will cost to operate and maintain these in the future.

I am further alarmed at the Reserve Study which I suspect shows we do not have nearly enough money to maintain what we have. As you know, when I was chair of the Finance and Budget Committee, I insisted management share the good, the bad and the ugly aspects of RCSC finances. My own take on what I saw in those financials was RCSC was overbuilt (and underutilized), had no replacement policy, no facility quality standard other than safety and was struggling financially to maintain its existing facilities. In other words, to balance the budget, RCSC either had to raise fees or start eliminating facilities. Even with the increase in fees RCSC ran a large budget deficit last year.

Bill, If you truly care as much as you say you do, I highly recommend you do a deep dive into RCSC finances and operations. I suspect you will be shocked by how shoddy our planning and execution is.

John

 

There's a lot to unpack there John and much of it is true. As far as digging into the finances, i've never been a numbers guy. i can read them, but it's never been an area of expertise for me and seldom one i get excited about doing. One of the best things that happened when you were elected was the promotion of Kevin to the interim GM and ultimately to the CFO. You guys made following the finances far easier for all of us.

The community is filled with talented members who are great with the financials. The tragedy is for more than 15 years we made little effort to engage them and bring them into the mix. The old GM was a one-stop-shop who did it all. Neither the board nor the budget and finance committee did much to reign her in. It was the classic example of giving any one person too much authority with too little oversight.

I thought we were well on our way to fixing that. Though we didn't agree on some things, the budgeting, reporting and 5 year reserve study you helped implement were all really good things. I'm not sure what's changed since you left, other than the GM runs over people with his decision making, but my best suggestion to you would be to highlight specific examples of where and how the financial pieces have changed, highlighting the worst cases.

The best example i can give is how i spoke out about golf passes. It angered some golfers who had a great deal, but it was unsustainable and frankly made no sense to be giving away rounds of golf during high season for next to nothing. And of course the biggest fiasco was selling full play passes to non-residents for less money than the cost of a round of golf for a member.

You've done much the same with the question regarding the PAC. Do we really need one? That's a question most won't ask because the automatic response is you that you hate the arts. I know when you/some of us started the effort to stop the Taj Mahal at Mountain View with the nonsense over the 8 year 40-50 million dollar plan, that was the cry from the Players. That project would have crippled the community.

Board members are always hesitant to tell anyone no. This whole battle cry over wants and needs has now the added dimension; What can we afford? That might well be the most important question we should be addressing openly and honestly. Most folks have a problem with being that direct as they flop about pretending everything everyone says we need is the gospel.

One of the things that shocked me at the last long range planning sessions i attended was hearing the South golf course desert landscaping conversion needed to be done in 2026. The PIF plan had pushed that one back to the end and apparently the state is telling them it has to be done first. It's easily the far largest and most expensive of all the course conversions and when coupled with the Quail Run 6 million dollar rebuild, it consumes an enormous amount of our 36 million dollar PIF balance. I'm still stunned that is what the state is telling them and some of the long range planning committee actually wondered aloud what happens if we just disregard the states directive? Good question BTW.

I was more surprised by how little commentary there has been about the 10 year PIF projections. It's easy to look at that 36 million dollar stockpile of PIF cash and think we are flush, but when you lay it against the laundry list of items on it, we are far from flush. Building costs have exploded and irrespective of ones political beliefs, don't look for any relief on costs. nothing will be cheap.

I need to watch the Exchange meeting from earlier this week, Ben tells me there were lots of interesting comments. Perhaps last year's array of foolish and poorly thought out actions along with the budget blunders awakened the sleeping giant of the membership. My message has always, will always be, get the members involved and then listen to them. That was how Sun City was built and why it was so successful.

 

Bill,
You (finally) got my point - What can we afford is what we should be discussing as a part of a master planning exercise! I know we often disagree but have a mutual respect for knowledgeable viewpoints. The simplest financial barometer developed during my term on the board is the reserve study. For those who hate accounting and finance, the reserve study boils it down to one simple percentage that indicates how likely it is to that fees will have to be increased, or a special assessment will have to be levied against the members. A high percentage is good and a low percentage is bad. I looked but could not find the RCSC reserve study on the website, so I have no idea what the percentage is. It would be a good question to ask at an exchange meeting.

 

John, rather than go through 600 lbs of paper I have accumulated, I will say last year we were using a 4% figure but that was just what called in underwriting “fer instance.” I had commented several times the past two years that the inflation rate would be going down to around 2%. It is true it is about 2.6% but the charts we were using could easily be reconfigured. This process is currently underway and expect to see something in February or March. Overall is the insurance renewal which starts in March and figures should be available in April, early May at the latest because we need the first reading in May. The renewal date is 6/30.

I hope this helps you and any questions hit me back.
D

 

My thinking has evolved on any PAC.
I'm now for Tom's retractable seating if it will work.
We are not rolling in $$$.
And I'm fine with them doing the ADWR mandates on the South course first and the redo on Quail Run. For the most part, I was always fine with golf improvements because they add beauty to the community and this benefits everyone.
I just want common sense to make a comeback and for people to be less selfish.

 

GdV, Thanks for that information. As a member of the Finance Committee did you review the reserve study and do you recall what the percentage was? John