Exchange Meeting - Monday, June 10, 2024

Exchange Meeting - Monday, June 10, 2024 ❗️1pm LATER TIME❗️Sundial Auditorium

What’s on your mind?
Members are encouraged to comment, question, compliment about anything RCSC related. Step up to the podium, state your name and RCSC member number to speak your mind up to three minutes!!

• Current Exchange Topics Discussion List for progress status.
https://suncityaz.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/6-10-24-Exchange-Topics-Corrected.pdf

• Board and Committee Meetings & Descriptions: https://suncityaz.org/rcsc/board-and-committee-meetings/

Source: RCSC Meeting notice e-mail: https://mailchi.mp/041628e2cfcb/exchange-meeting-5-7515062?e=f18f779945

 

I just want to encourage all members with ideas for what you want to see your money spent on to speak up and, if possible, research options. The exchanges are supposed to be a two way dialogue and can sometimes lead to favorable actions by RCSC.

 

If recent 'history' tells us anything about this it's that we have to come out in droves to be taken seriously, eg the libraries. (If we believe history, that won't happen as attendance is generally in the 70ish number with most leaving consistently throughout the meetings). Then the BOD says they were not aware of the library issue, and they were still explaining it to the candidates. The board not being aware is a bigger problem than the actual library fiasco. And we have the tantrum, which generated thunderous applause, so it was a good tantrum.

I listened to the candidate meeting. One person had very specific things to say, then when addressed by the BOD backtracked very quickly. A true politician. Ms. Borsky had some interesting things to say regarding the Foundation. I will address those privately with her.

Darla gets it. Yes there are millionaires here, but the majority are middle/lower middle/poverty level residents. What RCSC is doing with their spend, spend, spend philosophy is pricing the majority class right out of the market here. If they do what they want it will increase PIF, CIF, Assessment and other fees. How many millionaires will want to buy in Phase 1, or any phase for that matter unless it's on a lake. Even that will not make sense eventually as money is being spent on future "maybe's" instead of current repair/beautification.

I took a friend to Banner Olive Branch the other day to see the volunteer attorney. I have not been there since it was owned by Sun Health. The grocery section alone serves approximately 300 people on average a day. The people were amazingly helpful. I was so impressed I submitted an application to volunteer. So different from the RCSC employee who told my friend when he went for help re his S/O death to "get an attorney".

Just sayin.

 

HH - Thank you for helping your friend. Hearing this kind of story makes me proud to live in Sun City.

I respectfully agree with your observation that it takes a Boston Tea Party to get RCSC to back down. I respectfully disagree with your characterization of the majority of members of Sun City being of any particular economic class. I don't know (and neither do you) what the members median income level is. Another similar community indicated 3.7% of their population at or below the poverty line. The debate we had on the long range planning committee was whether we aspired to be a low income housing community or a value oriented recreational community. The difference in quality of amenities is huge but the difference in fees is not that large. I would argue mightily that if we aspire to be a low income housing community we are misleading folks that are buying homes in Sun City. So here are some points of reference to consider when it comes characterizing the majority of a community promising a fun and active retirement:

Somewhere between 40% and 50% of members are snowbirds which indicates they have multiple residences or the means (motorhomes/travel trailers) to travel to escape the heat. (Source former GM)

I have a very different view of Darla Aikens and will leave it at that.

 

John, I don't know Darla well enough, just liked her view. I stated the "majority" of residents are middle/lower middle/poverty level residents. I don't know the percentage of each, and never suggested SC should become a low income housing community. My parents were poverty level and traveled in a converted van for years staying in campgrounds. Super cheap way to live back in the 70's. They finally found this home which they could afford with both working part time, and kept their little van to get out of the summer heat. Things are not always what they seem.

Helping my friend has nothing to do with living in SC, and has everything to do with the fact that he is my friend, I love him and he was being taken advantage of. He was turned away by rec center employees numerous times. How he was treated by rec center office was not good, and much too involved to go into. Neighbors became different. I would guess you have no clue what the elderly who have no family to help have to go through.

 

John,

From Data USA
SUN CITY AZ
https://datausa.io/profile/geo/sun-city-az

2022 MEDIAN HOUSEHOLD INCOME
$51,263
11% 1-YEAR GROWTH

2022 POVERTY RATE
9.09%
9.26% 1-YEAR DECREASE

(Relevant content excerpts 2022 data based)
“In 2022, the median household income of the 22.9k households in Sun City, AZ grew to $51,263 from the previous year's value of $46,201.

9.09% of the population for whom poverty status is determined in Sun City, AZ (3.39k out of 37.3k people) live below the poverty line, a number that is lower than the national average of 12.5%. The largest demographic living in poverty are Females 75+, followed by Females 65 - 74 and then Males 75+.”

••
From 2021 to 2022, employment in Sun City, AZ declined at a rate of −1.09%, from 6.71k employees to 6.64k employees.
•(Under 7,000 of Sun City total residents employed in our 55+ community)

The most common employment sectors for those who live in Sun City, AZ, are Retail Trade (1,123 people), Health Care & Social Assistance (974 people), and Other Services, Except Public Administration (800 people). This chart shows the share breakdown of the primary industries for residents of Sun City, AZ, though some of these residents may live in Sun City, AZ and work somewhere else. Census data is tagged to a residential address, not a work address.
Data from the Census Bureau ACS 5-year Estimate.

ABOUT DATA USA:
https://datausa.io/about/background

Regarding Darla, viewing videos of board meetings she participated in reveal a lot about her service performance.

 

Oops. I can see where you would mistake my statement about the Rec Center telling my friend to get a lawyer and me taking him to Olive Branch. Not the case. Two completely different issues. RCSC did not want to process the refund for the privilege card for the person who died. Chris posted a complete fabrication of the facts, (lied), but you can look that up for yourself.

 

No stats since our new commander in chief? My bills have all gone up.....a lot. Especially groceries and gas. Wonder if a burger cost $12.99 in 2022. It does now, right here at George's cafe.

 

Same website Chris, just a tad further down on the page.
FACT
86% of people CANNOT find the data they're looking for on the US Census Bureau website. Source: Nielsen Norman Group

 

Chris upon closer investigation of the link you provided let's just note that the average salary rates are based on workplace sectors. You can change the parameters from men to women along with a couple of other factors. Those currently employed. There is no information for those living on SSI. As usual you will skew information or leave out information to work with your narrative.

 

Well 9.09% is higher than I thought and is significant. On the other hand, it indicates over 90% live above the poverty line. Quite honestly, when we bought our home and saw the volume of amenities available I thought this was too good to be true but there was tons of cash on the balance sheet. I later learned there was not really a capital replacement plan or maintenance plan in place. It seems our philosophy had been to fix things that broke, allocate some money to the Board's pet projects and save the rest. I hope we are becoming more disciplined in our planning. This was one of the things I stressed as a board member.

Luckily we have the Sun City Foundation that can assist members who are struggling to afford the assessment we all pay to support our recreational activities. While I really don't understand all the ins and outs of our foundation I contributed to it because I can and it is the right thing to do. There seems to be a disconnect between the number of people helped by the foundation and the poverty figures. The foundation is flush with cash but helps very few. During the candidate forum one board member said the board is doing things to expand the reach of the Foundation. Things? Really. I suppose this is just one more of those top secret undertakings this Board has become famous for.

 

Well this is your lucky day. I can answer part of the Foundation issue as I have been there. No need for me to blast my income, suffice it to say I am well below poverty level and currently get assistance from one major company. The government ended the other program. Thanks Joe. So I wanted to apply for my ONE time payment of the assessment. As usual nothing is electronic and I could not get out and drive at that point. It was dropped off at my home. It's embarrassing enough to have to ask for financial help but this application wanted everything except my first born. It was invasive and the other two places did not go to that extreme and they help with a lot more than $500. All I had to provide was my SSI statement.

I emailed and expressed my concerns and posted here as well. The ever empathetic and kind Bill Pearson said just fill it out (in so many words) because "No HH, my exact words were: "no one gives a shit who you are." I was concerned about information and the availability of it to volunteers who could be people I know. After all Bill was president of the foundation and he felt the need to use my real name on this site. Confidentiality my ass.

The never ending bull shit of the RCSC and the HOA is amazing. It was hell when my mother died, and an on and off hell since. The past 4 months especially with my neighbor. There are board members calling each other names, saying most of the people who live here are obtuse.

It would be something if a wannabe reporter had access to all this information and exposed this place for what it really is.

 

I’ll get Woodward and Bernstien on it right away.

 

Since I have attended several of the Foundation meetings, I can attest to at least a degree of confidentiality. When their business meeting is over and they start reviewing individual files, any guests are required to leave. That is certainly understandable.

It sounds like their application process is very rigid and too extensive for the amount of money the Foundation disperses. At one meeting, I heard some on the Foundation Board say some disparaging words about the applicants such as, "Many just spent all their money instead of saving." "A lot of people know how to work the system." The application says that the person seeking assistance needs to be 67 years old, but they will make exceptions. However, it was said. "We don't want that information to get out there." For a philanthropic organization, those don't seem to be very charitable comments.

I am sure the Foundation has helped many individuals over the years. This past year 32 people received $350 of gift cards from the Santas for Senior project. Four other people were approved. One died and the other three weren't home when the Foundation tried, on more than one occasion, to delivered the cards. My thoughts were, "Can't you call or email them to set up a time to either deliver them or pick them up at the Corporate Office? Maybe even use certified mail to get them to the recipient?" The extra $1800.00 of gift cards were put into the safe for next Christmas. Again, couldn't the recipients get $500 or maybe give them some at Easter or Thanksgiving time. Nope! Once I learned that my donation was sitting in the safe, I decided to contribute to a different organization helping seniors in Sun City.

Most Foundations publish Annual reports to let their donors know how much revenue they took in and how it was used. Ours does not. The last meeting I attended the treasurer gave a very vague synopsis of their finances. He said, "As you can see, we are in good shape." One Director joked, "Let's have a party!" When I had a chance to comment, I asked if they had plans to spend the $200,000 that someone bequeathed them in 2023. They don't and the donor didn't make any stipulations on how it would be spent. Honestly, I think they were surprised that I knew about it. As of their March meeting, that money was sitting in a money market savings account. I think it would be a good start for them to start building an endowment. If the Foundation publicized their donations, others may decide to include the Foundation in their estate plans. I guess they think they have enough money already.

Since they do not publish the minutes of their meetings or their financial reports (which are required to be public by the IRS for 501(c)3 organizations, a person has to fill out the forms to receive them which I have done in the past. (HH, again those forms are not electronic so you need to fill them out by hand, take them to the Corporate Office or mail them, and wait for them to decide if they will provide them. What year is this? 1985?)

So much potential.......such small outcomes!

 

After seeing firsthand all the good things that came from and are still happening at places like Benevilla, Sun Health and Banner Foundations your post makes me sick. People making fun of poor people. Lovely. It would not surprise me one bit if Weiland and Pearson were part of that. Now, even more than before, Sun City will never get any of my time, Banner will. Through the wonders of technology, which Sun City appears to have no knowledge of, these sites and blogs can be preserved. Mr. Chops, Bob and Carl are in their early 80's and I am sure this is beneath them. However I have been contacted by a friend's son.

Welp, back to squandering my millions, working the system and I may even go full blown rogue and set the A/C at 82! It's the weekend and rates are cheaper! I don't use the word 'hate', and even challenged Pearson to find where I said 'I hate Sun City' as he has stated many times and never proved, so here ya go Bill! I h*** Sun City! Nope, can't do it. It does suck tho.

 

No Dave W is not on the Foundation Board.

 

Janet at one point in time Pearson was President of the Foundation:

Having served as the Sun City Foundation president for three years, the problem used to be worse. During my term (2012-2014), we were caught up in some pretty ugly issues. The % of those living below the poverty level was twice what it is today. Those who had bought during the huge price increases starting in 2005 and culminating in the crash of the housing market (2009/2010) were trapped, especially if they had bought a house with a balloon payment on their mortgage. After the crash, we had seniors buying in Sun City because how cheap it was. You could buy a garden court apt in phase 1 for under 30k and a single family home for well under 100k.

Both problems hit the Foundation simultaneously. The intent was to be able to help those who outlived their resources. It was never intended to subsidize people who couldn't afford to live here. Not trying to sound callous, but the role of the foundation was clearly to take care of long term members who had lost a spouse and a portion of their income or folks who retired and the cost of living had long since passed them by. That was the reason we established a set of criteria and who could qualify for assistance.

I would suspect many of that 10% population LC mentioned are RCSC members who fall into that category. It will be especially difficult as the inflation factor hits everyone and everything they buy. It's one of the reasons it may be time to re-evaluate the single payment versus the couples payment structure. I suspect most people have no idea that has changed back and forth any number of times during Sun City's history. I know the argument; it's easier to calculate revenue when every household pays the same. It's also grossly unfair for singles to subsidize couples.

It gets worse. Now that we know golf has been subsidized to the amount it had been (25 million dollars in the past 12 years), that single person is helping fund golfers who take maximum advantage and play a lot. I won't bore you with the details, but paying $5 to play a round of golf is shameful if you think about a person struggling to pay their lot assessment so they can do just that. Especially when you find out they can't pay it on time and goes to collection where the amount can double.

This is one of the real issues 3G talked about and needs to be aired in a public venue and forum.

Last edited: Mar 30, 2022
BPearson, Mar 30, 2022R

So many times Bill changes his opinion depending on the circumstances and who he is trying to impress. Dave W is just a crass individual who would embarrass whoever had the nerve to bring him to any gathering outside of a 60's concert.

 

Happy Hippie,

I was just going to "Like" your post until you insulted a couple of people. However, I agree with much of what Bill says in your post. Also I think it is perfectly acceptable for any of us to change our opinions as we learn more and circumstances change.

I am also a single homeowner but have to pay the full assessment. I agree that it seems unfair. I remember when it changed and my parents were delighted since they were a couple. The excuse that RCSC has to do it this way for budgeting is ridiculous, especially since all other 55+ communities do it otherwise, as you have pointed out. However, I knew this when I purchased my current property.

As a minor philanthropist, I think it is important to help anyone who is in dire straits, regardless of their age or how long they have lived in SC. At one of the Foundation meetings, I presented a possible scenario where a couple could move to SC, one spouse dies, the other may be handicapped but not 67 or had not lived here a full five years, and they would not qualify under the current Foundation guidelines. That's when I heard that they could make exceptions but don't want that information "out there".

I am a golfer and believe, as you do, that the golfing community should pay the bulk of the expenses of that amenity. It has had "gobs" of RCSC money spent on courses that only a small percentage of RCSC Members play. I try to attend the Golf Advisory Committee meetings too. I think they are starting to get the idea. Not to fault them, I think they were not always given accurate information.

When dealing with others, in person or on blogs like this, I try to find common ground with people. Most of the time I think Bill P is right on his views. Dave W and I haven't always agreed, perhaps an understatement, but I enjoy bantering with him. I have just had to accept his demeanor is what it is. He is a smart man. For all of you, I don't respect insulting each other. Hope I don't do that, but no one is perfect!

 

That's rich Janet. So you are good with Dave telling me to stuff my opinion in between the folds of my thighs if they were not hanging too low. (among several other like statements). Proves my point about the class of people on boards and committees here. You have insulted me on several occasions, and yes I have the quotes. For 50 years I have worked for CEO's of small and large corporations, in the "C" Suite as it is referred to now. All the people I worked with and for had class. I have never heard talk like I read on Sun City sites. On occasion I have retaliated in kind and am ashamed. The very first thing you ever said to me was:

Janet Curry
Josie, I think you are always “fed up”. Sad way to live, never acknowledging the positives in life.

I never spoke with you, met you, interacted with you on social media yet this was your response to me for saying:

Josie Petersen
Top contributor
· March 11 ·
Feeling fed up. Just read the Independent. No decision on our dog park. One serious incident, the rest are people not picking up poop. If our RCSC Board cannot make a simple decision on our dog park, how will they ever fix the $20 million deferred maintenance issues? Don't let the bad guy back in and pick up poop, even if not your dog's.

So you assumed things about every aspect of my life from one comment. The Holier than thou is not working. You accept, without any remarks, this low life statement to me from Dave.

"HH, I never wanted an MBA from anywhere, so stuff that thought in your thigh folds if they are not hanging low. Aside from gleaning info from a long dormant FB account, you never answered my questions regarding in high school, basically you are a fraud. Did you have an elevator pass in high school or why did the burger place across the street from the school based on a rumor? Just ask’n."

Geoffrey de Villehardouin, May 6, 2024

Sun City has been broken for a long time. Going public with all this BS might just be the disinfectant this community needs.