URGENT UPDATE ON SUN CITY LIBRARIES

Dave, I don't know how you can claim that the "Board is plagiarizing our bylaws". Our task was to give them a draft of our work. It seems, Dave, that it was always theirs to begin with. Besides, isn't it the best compliment when someone copies you?

 

Since my full name was mentioned in this post by Geoffrey de Villehardouin, aka Christine de Pazin, Dave Wieland, snarkyhistorian (his email), and however many more aliases he chooses to use, I am compelled to set the record straight. Dave is right that we had consensus on the document until five of the Directors said they would vote against the entire work if it allowed Members to solicit signatures on RCSC property. Another gentleman on the committee and I could not agree to that. The vote was 5-2. We did have consensus to send the document to the Board since we had completed our work. The Chairperson said he would reintroduce that particular bylaw once a new Board was installed but he was going to vote with the majority at that time so the bylaws would change. Sorry, that wasn't good enough for me since we had no idea if the new Board would pass it or not. Plus that's not the way to pass policy. You are either for it or against it! Therefore, two of us spoke at the Board meeting withdrawing our support of the revised bylaws because we strongly felt Members should be able to collect signatures on RCSC property. Nevertheless, the adoption of the revised bylaws was passed on the first reading. I knew I had put my best effort into the committee and didn't take it personally. But, Dave, you seem to want to make it personal. Please remember that our bylaws revision didn't pass the second reading because, one Director, changed her vote. I once ran into her and asked why the change. She made some vague comment about them not being very good. Please quit blaming me because your precious bylaws didn't get passed. We submitted our work and it's up to the Board what to do with it. No more revisionist history please or accusing the Board of "plagiarizing" our work!

 

Remember you are dealing with a person who referred to a woman as Anne of Cleavage. It has been refreshing to say the least to see some new names with new ideas. I would love to volunteer to help, with conditions. I managed paperwork for the Banner acquisition of Sun Health which included highly confidential information that I still have not revealed to this day. It happened in 2008/9. I have people who will give me references. If not that's fine too. I am purging and packing in anticipation of a move. Good luck Janet.

 

Not only should signatures be allowed to be collected on RCSC property, the RCSC, board or management should have no say in whether or not a petition should be allowed!

First of all, there's a strong possibility the petition is something against the RCSC, a Director or management, so it would be a conflict of interest on their part to have them decide to issue permission or not.

Secondly, the determination as to whether the petition is valid or not will be determined by the Membership if over 3,000 Members agree.

The RCSC should only be required to issue the petition a number...period!

That's my common sense opinion!

 

So you do agree petition numbers are needed to collect signatures on RCSC properties?

 

The introduction of signatures on RCSC property was done in March and considering that the new Board consisted of three newly elected members who were in fact the first wave of SCA, something they campaigned for and the members wanted. I even went along with it. Why the motion failed was beyond my comprehension.

John, the meeting scheduled for Tuesday has been cancelled for further review of the document to be presented. Sorry dude. There is always the villagers with torches and pitchforks tomorrow at the exchange. Look on the bright side, we won’t have to listen to pickleball players wanting more, more, more or the players and their traveling theater.

Time for more data points that prove nothing. The Fairway fiasco is falls in the The Lone Ranger category, you’ll get a fair trial before we hang you Butch Cavendish.

 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Bill, I cannot comment on what a fool thinks or does not think. (again this is humor Bill)

I want to respond to your response regarding what a properly trained Board would do.

A properly trained Board would
have been shoulder to shoulder with their GM throughout this important library decision.
not meet behind closed doors with the GM, particularly when the GM and Board is new and not all directors are present. Even you would admit the creates an atmosphere of distrust.
not attempt to schedule a joint committee meeting (F&B and LRP) to review the five-year plan process without informing the members. After the meeting was discovered, it was rescheduled.
have disclosed a Board member's wife was president of the BFDC when the dog socialization building was put on the PIF.
NOT commit all PIF funds for the foreseeable future to a new Mountainview/Lakeview project without first having the strategic plan on place.
NOT propose doing partial renovations on two major recreational sites. Choose one site and fix the whole thing.

We both know the list goes on and on and on... The hole keeps getting deeper with each shovel full of half-truths tossed out of it...

 

Yes I do! I don't believe I ever implied anything different? Just a pro-forma sort of thing.

 

THIS…….“We have had the ASU study, focus groups,working groups, the Strategic Alternative Committee, a Long Range Planningcommittee, biweekly Finance and Budget meetings, all made up of RCSC Members. I don't believe closing the libraries was everdiscussed with or recommended by any of these groups. The Members who served on those committees deserve some answers as to why this was not presented to them during their long volunteer hours trying to makeSun City a better place.”

The organization currently lacks a framework for effective governance and accountability. There is a notable absence of communication and transparency between committees, the board, and senior management. This deficiency hinders the establishment of clear responsibilities and oversight among key decision-making bodies within the organization, thus impeding its overall effectiveness and performance.

 

And wouldn't it be nice if all those committees we have, made some sort of a report at our board meetings?

All's we ever seem to get is a management and finance report, (RCSC staff created), which is often to confusing to understand!

 

OMG! Where have I heard this before? But when the Grand Puba says to ignore someone you all follow like sheep. Then you wonder why the people of this community are disgusted.

From Page 1 of this Forum.
↑Happy Hippie (Josie)
No one is on first. That's the problem. The BOD is in charge and has been for a long time. Those of us who can't run around a tennis or pickle ball court, or go rock climbing enjoyed the dog park and the library. Sun City does not belong to the residents any longer. I said before and still stand by my statement that any board member who was not aware we were getting into $20 mil in deferred maintenance over the past 15 years should never have been allowed the privilege to serve. Every BOD meeting should be reviewing financials from the Finance Committee, and if they were not doing so they were not in compliance.


Tom Trepanier, Mar 29, 2024
↑
What, who is on 2nd, wants to know what are the “financials from the Finance Committee” you refer to in this post? I assume a committee does not prepare the monthly reports to the BOD. Please clarify.

Happy Hippie (Josie)
and why not? as i have said many times i attended and took minutes at board meetings for non profits for 17 years. there was always a finance "packet" as we called it. don't we have a "finance committee"? sitting here laughing. this just keeps getting worse. https://propelnonprofits.org/resour...uld regularly review,start of the fiscal year.
Mar 29, 2024

Happy Hippie (Josie)
No response. I guess you remembered the king told you not to respond to me for x number of weeks. Here is a list of committees. If they don't report to the board monthly exactly what in the hell do they do?

Committee Meetings

Date/Time
Location
Bowling Committee Thursday, April 4 @ 9am Lakeview Lanes Meeting Room**
Sun City in Focus Committee Monday, April 8 @ 4pm Lakeview Board Room
Long Range Planning Committee Tuesday, April 9 @ 8:30am Lakeview Board Room
Lawn Bowling Committee Tuesday, April 9 @ 1pm Lakeview Board Room
Club Organization (COC) Wednesday, April 10 @ 10am Lakeview Board Room
Technology Committee Wednesday, April 10 @ 4pm Lakeview Board Room
Golf Advisory Committee Thursday, April 11 @ 8:30am Lakeview Social Hall #2
Finance and Budget Committee Wednesday, April 17 @ 1pm Lakeview Board Room
Outreach & Communications Committee Thursday, April 18 @ 1pm Lakeview Board Room
Insurance Committee Friday, April 19 @ 9am Lakeview Board Room
Elections Committee Wednesday, April 24 @ 1pm Lakeview Board Room
Properties Committee No Meeting Scheduled this month
Other Meetings:
Sun City Foundation Thursday, April 11 @ 11am Lakeview Board Room

Happy Hippie, Mar 29, 2024

All from page one of this thread. All stated by me on March 29. I attended and took minutes at board meetings for non profits for 17 years. there was always a finance "packet" as we called it. don't we have a "finance packet/report". Is this you new great idea FYI?

 

In a perfect world John, everyone would be perfect. Sadly it's not, nor any of us...including you. But alas, i have no interest in recanting your sins while serving on the board. Frankly anyone who steps into the breach comes away understanding just how futile a board position is when the general manager has predetermined outcomes. There was a reason i took the time to post the duties of the general manager from 1993, back then their sole job was to run the day to day operations of the organization.

Let's be really clear about the "imperfections," you cited John. We currently have a GM who was hired what? 6 or 7 months ago. We have a CFO who has been in place for a little over 2 years and the board's current makeup (after you and Jean quit) has 5 board members with a total of 9 months service between them. All of which supports the long standing argument of better board training.

The simple reality is, change in organizational structure is most often slow moving (by design). How we got here was a 15 plus year journey by a "visionary" who saw the evolution to a top down run organization with absolute and total control in the hands of the general manager. Board after board allowed her the leeway to write her own ticket as far as how the RCSC was to function.

Had she been perfect, everything would have been wonderful. But as noted earlier, it is an imperfect world run by imperfect people. Several of you have pointed out the "lack of trust" coming from the library debacle. It's been poorly handled, but looking at our documents and the leeway granted the GM i can understand how it happened. The explosion was at the exact same time key people were away for the Easter holiday and as soon as they returned it was dealt with.

Perfectly? Nope. But here's the difference between us. But first, I would agree the internal processes, given the evolution of how the RCSC has been run has created major flaws across the board. Hell, even the staggering work done by the PAC was flawed (badly?), but the work they/you did with it was invaluable. Therein is your most significant accomplishment once elected; you stopped the stupidity of the 40-50 million dollar, 8 year remodel of Mountain View. It would have crippled us as a community and our future.

As i often do, i tend to drift. Our differences are this easily defined: You noted the flaws in people and the lack of trust. I am far more pragmatic and my trust is based in the belief in our system of governance. History has taught us the cast of characters changes, constantly. the saving grace is our system of self-governance has been restored. That's what i have spent the better part of my retirement working towards...the membership having a voice in determining our future.

In spite of all the flaws from all of the imperfect people serving on the board, on committees, or by those hired as management, the system works. As ugly as today will be, the reality is irrespective of what has been done to date will result in the libraries being around for years to come. If that's not the outcome, then i will be proven wrong and i will promptly admit it.

 

Well excuse me if I don't read your posts!

Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back!

What I said, if you read my post, I would like to hear reports from ALL the committees not just management and finance!

 

As did I FYI. But when Bill tells folks to hit the ignore button they do. 17 years of putting together 35+ board packets to send to BOD with tabulated monthly reports from every hospital department does teach you a little. That's twice you have told me not to break my arm for same reason. Retention issue?

 

"When a committee is properly selected, in nine cases out of ten its action decides that of the assembly." RONR

Read that again... "When a committee is properly selected, in nine cases out of ten its action decides that of the assembly." RONR

 

I have asked this questions several times, and each time there is no answer or I am told to forget the past and look to the future. Well as someone who relies on the past as you do for guidance, you keep saying from 2006 things kept getting worse for Sun City, yet no one changed anything? You said it wasn't until someone "threw open the books" that the realization of how bad things really are came to light. I assumed from your statement that no one looked at the books since 2006, and when I asked why, I was told it was in the past, forget it, and look to the future. Well $20 million is hard to swallow. Enjoy the meeting, I need to get back to purging and packing.

 

I particularly enjoy the last two items you mention and appreciated your efforts to get some lrp started. I’m a fiscally conservative liberal and have been taught that “ if I don’t have the money, don’t spend it.” The BOD is checking to see how much money they need to spend and at the same time spending it. Make sense? Heck no it doesn’t!

 

Bill,

Wow - here we go again with responses that seem disproportionate to the issues addressed. The facts I presented are just that. Facts. I am really trying hard to read your responses as not attacking those who dare quote facts, but it is difficult. Those with an ounce of humility will see clearly what I point out are the things that should be avoided by any Board so as to limit the liability of the corporation and its Board. I sense you are defending something by trying to claim I am noting flaws in people. Not sure what triggered this or why but OK - Just realize I am not attacking anything; I am pointing out a string of terrible decisions that has significantly eroded trust. These decisions were made by Board members seeking to control the outcomes (achieve agendas) as opposed to trying to improve the governance processes and let the members decide the outcomes. At present, I tend to more strongly agree with those who are having difficulty swallowing what they are being fed.

Best Regards,

John

 

With all due respect John, you are entitled to your "facts, just like i am entitled to my "opinions." Ultimately, all of us are flawed; i don't think you would argue that?

I like to lean into our history; it is a powerful tool to help steer our way forward. Included in said history are the mistakes made by countless numbers of "volunteers (including me)." I would suspect most felt whatever they did was right. The only measurement tool then becomes the outcomes. Moving forward, hopefully everyone can learn from theirs and others mistakes.

I suspect today's turnout had to be an eye-opener. The crowd was large and vocal. Like i stated earlier, self-governance works, irrespective of who the cast of characters are. At least that's my take-away from this morning. The ultimate judge will be the outcome.

PS. I like to write and help those following the thread better understand how we got here. Please don't think everything i write is directed at you or even for you. That would make you Carly Simon like. (my version of humor).

 

Sun City is no longer a self governing organization and hasn’t been for years. I don’t care how many times you you want to proclaim it is, it has morphed into a good ol’ boy network that has had a GM as the ringleader. Favoritism has been rampant and those in the inner circle got served, those that weren’t got lip service at best, but mostly ignored. It’s way past time for actual leadership. We need to start by applying strong principles and financial control and develop long term strategies instead of just continuing to try and catch the latest trends and build them. Remember how we got here and plan for a better future.