EPCOR is holding two upcoming Open Houses in Sun City

Discussion in 'Sun City General Discussions' started by Ida Eisert, Jul 10, 2016.

  1. Ida Eisert

    Ida Eisert Guest

    Yes, this will impact Sun City!

    Monday, July 11 - 1:30 p.m. to 3:00 p.m.
    Sundial Center
    14801 N 103rd Avenue
    Sun City, AZ 85351
    Monday, July 18 - 5:30 p.m. to 7:00 p.m.
    Sundial Center
    14801 N 103rd Avenue
    Comment - Arizona Corporation Commission eService

    Fill in the short form and enter your opinion.

    You will need the following docket number:
    Docket Number WS-01303A-16-0145

    Comment - Arizona Corporation Commission eService

    It is also important to contact each ACC
    Commissioner
    Arizona Corporation Commission

    Let's all get involved otherwise it will hit us in the
    pocketbook. Tell your Sun City neighbors and friends. Looking for at least 20,000 statements against
    consolidation.



     
  2. Ida Eisert

    Ida Eisert Guest

    Great! Thank you Emily. Have a great day!
     
  3. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Went to the dog and pony shoe on Monday. All civil and several comments against, except one guy explained why it was such a good deal to have our water bills double over the next 4 years. Literally that is the net affect to Sun City residents under consolidation. SCW isn't quite as bad because they already have higher waste water bills. The other districts get huge reductions as we pay for them with our increase.

    Looks to me like this will happen when the rate case is finally adjudicated. Or just as likely will be a compromise settlement where they shove a huge increase at us and tell us its better than it going to court and eating the whole s-sandwich.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2016
  4. SCR

    SCR Active Member

    In response to BPearson

    I also attended Mondays dog and pony show and was somewhat
    disappointed for a couple of reasons.

    1. Turnout - I think there may have been maybe 100 to 150
    people present at the event. I realize there is a second session
    scheduled, but I doubt that that session will have any more
    people attending. That's really a poor turn out based on the number
    of house holds in Sun City. I can only guess that either people
    were unaware of the event, are complacent, or don't care that their
    waste water rates will almost double.

    2. Lone Supporting Individual - I'm also guessing that the speaker that
    said the proposed consolidation rates are a good deal for Sun City
    was not from Sun City.

    3. Rate Schedule Basis - the rates proposed by Epcor are based on 7000
    gallon average water usage. That's a lot of water. If you have no pool
    and have desert landscaping I doubt the average Sun Citian uses
    7000 gallons of water. My average water usage for the year is 3,250
    gallons. I have desert landscaping plus 2 fruit trees. There should
    be tiers for water usage and waste water just like there are tiers
    for electric usage.

    4. Infrastructure Cost - According to one speaker, the waste water
    infrastructure in Sun City has been fully paid for. I don't think the
    infrastructure for Anthem, Agua Fria, and Mohave are fully paid for
    and thus those communities are charged more for waste water. The folks
    in Anthem knew or should have known buying in what their waste water
    rates were. Just for comparison, the waste water rates for Phoenix
    are 34.43 and phoenix has multiple waste water treatment plants.

    5. I think you mis-stated the increase as a water bill increase. The
    water bill stays the same, only the waste water portion is almost doubled.
    However, that doesn't make it any easier to swallow.

    6. Speaker Unable to answer some question - the speaker was not fully
    prepared to answer some of the questions that were directed to him.
    Instead of providing an answer, he directed people to go to one of
    the tables and get an answer there. What he should have done was bring
    knowledgeable party on to the stage to answer the question. For
    example a question was asked "what maintenance or repairs have been
    made to the Sun City infrastructure?". The speaker did not have that
    answer.

    7. The ACC's Policy - According to the speaker, the ACC has adopted a
    policy of favoring consolidation. This leads me to believe, as you,
    that there will be consolidation. There has already been a concession
    to Epcor regarding waste water rates in Sun City to avoid a full
    rate case hearing. The full rate case hearing is happening anyway.

    8. Water Rate Increase - not sure if this was talked about, but I'm sure
    Epcor is already preparing for and requesting a water rate increase.
    The waste water hike if approved as is cannot be changed once implemented.
    That means for 3 years waste water rates will increase gradually until
    they reach 41.02. That's waste water rates - not water rates. Your
    water rates however, will surely increase in those 3 years.

    9. 50 Year Lifespan - Epcor is using the 50 year lifespan as a scare tactic
    to make people believe that the infrastructure is doomed to imminent
    failure. Philadelphia (the 5th largest city and Phoenix the 6th
    largest city have not undertaken massive infrastructure replacement.
    The Phoenix infrastructure is older than the Sun City infrastructure
    and they are not seeing massive failures. Yes, there have been water
    main breaks, but I've never heard of a failure of the waste water
    infrastructure. Same for Philadelphia. Why is Sun Cities waste
    water infrastructure any different? Granted, there may come a time
    when there are failures, but even the experts can't predict when.

    10. Improvements and efficiencies - what improvements and efficiencies
    will we see in the next three years from Epcor regarding our waste
    water handling? They have proposed no tangible benefit for the
    increased rates. Once your waste water goes down the drain it is
    forgotten. It goes to the waste water treatment plant in Tollison
    and is processed. How can they improve upon that? What is the
    benefit for the proposed added cost?
     
  5. pegmih

    pegmih Well-Known Member

    Did you see the letter in yesterday's newspaper about the water?
    It suggests Sun Citians contact commissioners and object.

    You can fill in a short form and enter your opinion. Go to the following. I did. BTW, we are EPCOR,

    Comment - Arizona Corporation Commission eService

    I will also be contacting the Commissioners. Where can I find a list?
     
  6. pegmih

    pegmih Well-Known Member

    Did you see the letter in yesterday's newspaper about the water?
    It suggests Sun Citians contact commissioners and object.

    You can fill in a short form and enter your opinion. Go to the following. I did. BTW, we are EPCOR,

    Comment - Arizona Corporation Commission eService

    I will also be contacting the Commissioners. Where can I find a list?
     
  7. pegmih

    pegmih Well-Known Member

    Here is what I plan to say to commissioners when I find out who they are.

    "As an EPCOR ratepayer and a Sun City resident,
    I strongly object to EPCOR's recommendation for full consolidation of the EPCOR watewater districts.

    Everything is going Up, Up, Up, except my income.
    This increase would be a burden on me and other Sun Citians.
    Sun City should not be forced to subsidize other districts."
     
  8. Ida Eisert

    Ida Eisert Guest

    This has become a "gofundme"
    society. And now, there are individuals in other communities that want the
    Corporation Commission to do their
    handiwork of forcing "gofundme" on
    others. The Commission will be
    making the final decision. Amazing
    that 5 commissioners wield so much
    power. So, Sun City, call, mail, e-mail those 5 and let your voice be heard;
    that they take another route because
    this is not in the best interest of
    Sun City. It's about Sun City residents subsidizing other Communities. And
    some like Epcor and other
    communities trying to convince or
    argue otherwise for their benefit.
     
  9. SCR

    SCR Active Member

    Last edited: Jul 14, 2016
  10. pegmih

    pegmih Well-Known Member

    I had a hard time copying the addresses but finally did it.
    Now I am going to email all of them.
    Hope everyone in SC does.

    I am going to forward a copy of my email to all my friends in SC.
     
  11. Ida Eisert

    Ida Eisert Guest

  12. Ida Eisert

    Ida Eisert Guest

     
  13. SCR

    SCR Active Member

    Sorry about that. I used the list I had for the APS Mandatory Demand rate case.

    Original post is corrected.
     
  14. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Okay, slow down a bit here and someone help understand; there's an election coming up and this case won't be heard until next year. That's where i need help,what will contacting these guys do now? I suspect Greg is lurking relatively close Ida, want to poke him with a stick and see if he thinks contacting them now will make a difference?

    Just dragged out our last water bill. I didn't go into the detail SCR did, i find people's eye's glaze over when you start talking waste water and water separately. Our water bills used to run around $32-$35 (both waste and water charge). Since the cost increase on waste water a year agoand higher water rates, we now are over $40 (with the waste water portion being $22.11 which is a fixed amount). If consolidation goes through in 2017, with the 3 year phase in, the waste water portion alone will be what our bill is this month for both ($42). That will put our total water bill with increases well over $60 per month. Meaning it will have doubled in about 5 years.

    By all means i'm for contacting the commissioners, if there's a value in doing it. But, i think we need be really mindful of the coming election this fall. I hear only 2 of the 6 candidates are refusing dark money which means several of the folks are already being groomed by APS to fall in line IMHO.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2016
  15. Ida Eisert

    Ida Eisert Guest

    Value, YES. Now is good and again in October better. Being proactive is what Residents must do. Greg
    is in agreement. The commissioners need to get a
    bombardment of letters and e-mail. Greg says
    20,000. Tell your Sun City friends, family and
    neighbors. It's up to us to let these 5 powerful
    commissioners know. There is also an up and coming
    Q & A with the ACC candidates end of September.
     
  16. J_and_V

    J_and_V Member

    I love how all this stuff happens when a portion of the residents aren't here.

    Time to get out the email addresses for the snowbirds.
     
  17. aggie

    aggie Well-Known Member

    SCR posted this point: 3. Rate Schedule Basis - the rates proposed by Epcor are based on 7000
    gallon average water usage. That's a lot of water. If you have no pool
    and have desert landscaping I doubt the average Sun Citian uses
    7000 gallons of water. My average water usage for the year is 3,250
    gallons. I have desert landscaping plus 2 fruit trees. There should
    be tiers for water usage and waste water just like there are tiers
    for electric usage.


    I agree totally about the base figure. We are year round residents with a single family home and one citrus tree. We average under 4000 gallons a month. I'd be willing to negotiate with EPCOR if they would lower the base figure. APS should also raise the "Small User" base figure to 800 kws before charging a Demand Charge. The figures these utilities use as base usage amounts is unrealistic!
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2016
  18. aggie

    aggie Well-Known Member

    Don't forget to attend the EPCOR event tonight. If it was anything like last week's daytime forum, there is quite a spread of food offered in case you come hungry.

    There is really only a one-way exchange of information. This forum is not limited to Sun City Water District. Anyone that comes to the mic in favor of this $20+ increase to the wastewater portion of our bills is probably from a district that will see their bills decrease with consolidation. Show up and try not to get too frustrated with the one-sided presentation by EPCOR.

    EPCOR Open House

    Date/Time
    Date(s) - 07/18/2016
    5:30 pm - 7:00 pm

    Location
    Sundial Recreation Center
     
  19. SCR

    SCR Active Member

    Attended the Epcor presentation again last night. My primary reason
    for attending is that I wanted to see the turn out. WOW! Was I
    disappointed. Maybe 100 people. I realize that maybe a third of
    Sun city residents are away for the summer, but 100 people is not
    a good showing. Epcor however has stated that they will hold another
    presentation in the fall when the snow birds return. At that point
    however, you will not be able to file as an intervener.

    One of the things mentioned was that Epcor has over 700 miles of waste
    water pipes in total across all 5 districts. They did not break down
    the number of miles in each district. That information would be very
    interesting to know. That does not mean that all 700 miles of pipe
    have to be replaced. Anthems pipes are supposedly good for another 40
    years according to Epcors life expectancy of waste water pipes. Epcor
    also stated that they would not be replacing all waste water pipes in
    Sun City. They would replace what was needed and repair others.

    There was still no discussion on why their rates are based on 7000
    gallons. 7000 gallons is a lot of water. Anthem in my opinion would
    probably use 7000 gallons or more as they are more than 1 and 2 person
    households like Sun City. This subject has to be addressed by Epcor
    as each district has different water and waste water needs. It should
    also be addressed by the ACC as they have the power to force Epcor
    to charge all users for the EXACT amount of water they use.

    The Sun City speakers at last nights presentation did pose some interesting
    questions and had some interesting comments. However, last nights
    forum will do nothing to convince the ACC to disallow consolidation.
    Interveners must file to speak and testify in front of the administrative
    judge and the ACC. Also, each and every Sun City resident must either
    email or write letters to all the commissioners now and after the election.
    It will not be enough to say "I oppose consolidation". You must present
    facts and figures and reasons why you oppose consolidation. Being on
    a fixed income will not qualify as a valid reason as that has become
    the slogan for Sun City. Yes, there are folks on a fixed income still
    in Sun City, but I believe that the newer generation of owners are much
    more affluent and planned well for their retirement.

    According to Epcor, the ACC has adopted a policy of favoring consolidation.
    This being the case, there has to be much more involvement on the part of
    Sun City residents. Airing your concerns at an Epcor presentation will
    NOT sway the ACC. Sun City must create a committee to file as an
    intervener and present their case on behalf of all the residents of
    Sun City. They must go before the administrative judge and the ACC.
    Better yet, the Sun City Rec Center board should hold an open meeting
    and appoint members to a committee to act as interveners and file
    as interveners. The board has a stake in this consolidation matter as
    they too are an Epcor customer. As our supposed representatives they
    have an obligation to intervene for themselves and the community.

    The final and most appropriate action everyone can take is to use
    your vote against the ACC.
     
  20. aggie

    aggie Well-Known Member

    I totally agree with this statement. EPCOR is trying to fight this argument by saying they are putting aside extra funds to help those that meet low income criteria.


    Don't count on much support from the RCSC. Commercial EPCOR customers are not in the same boat as residential customers. It's almost impossible to even get a statement on how rates will change for commercial customers and when asked, the reply is "It's a very complicated formula." I don't even think RCSC provided the Sun Dial auditorium for these two events for free and charged for the use.
     

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