We know at least some of the RCSC board members read this site. Knowing that, i posted this thread on golf across the USA and asked a board member to post some stats to show us how Sun City was fairing. They always love to talk in terms of their budget, but i am more concerned about rounds played per year over the past 15 years (2000-2015). To date, no one has taken on the challenge of showing us what those stats are, though i do know following this post, board members were given that information. So, to elaborate on the header...which board member has the chutzpah to post those stats and show us exactly what is going on? Thanks in advance, i'm sure at least one of the board members has the courage to share some simple information.
It's an eerie silence....I know I wouldn't want to answer simple questions or show any emotion and risk being scolded.
And therein lays the problem of failing to answer simple questions V. The silence sends one's imagination running wild with speculation. The classic example was the boards unwillingness to share the value of this for-profit corporation. Hell, we already know they can lien and ultimately foreclose on delinquent properties, so what added value does this new company bring to the table? Bidding on homes up for auction in a market where flippers are aggressively bidding properties up insures they will never win a bid (especially if what they told us is true about only bidding one dollar more than what they are owed). Rumor has it they now have the documentation in hand regarding how this company will work, anyone care to speculate how soon we will be seeing this information? But back to that burning question on golf and the rounds played on a yearly basis (2000-2015). We know the board has that data in their hot little hands, so why not release it? The fact you don't/won't/can't only suggests the numbers are so bad it would hurt your arguments about shoveling 40 million dollars at the courses and out-buildings over a 10 year period. My guess is the numbers wouldn't be as bad as the national averages, but until you show us, all we can do is speculate they suck and you are afraid to show us.
BPearson Regarding your golf issue, I remember posting on a different board many years ago regarding just this subject. I think I even remember you responding to that post. I believe the figures regarding golf and the courses has never been fully disclosed and never will be. The reason for this I think is because in the by-laws or other documents it was mandated that the golf courses would never be allowed to be used for anything else but golf. That being the case, maintenance of 8? courses will be a staggering amount. The number of rounds played then becomes mute because as long as Sun City exists the golf courses will remain golf courses even if only 1 person plays each course. Do you think the board allowed outside play because they wanted to be considerate of non Sun Citians and allow them to play our courses? I don't think so. It was more likely to generate revenue and increase the number of rounds played. How much does each player pay for a round of golf? When was the last increase of this fee and how much was it? If expenditures for golf and courses is as high as you say, then I think too much money is unfairly spent on golf as opposed to other amentites in Sun City. Regardless of rounds played and expenditures for golf there will be no change unless the community gets involved. There isn't a contract, will, or other legacy document that cannot be broken legally.
Good points SCR and brings up some history many i am sure are not aware of. Originally there were two activities that were set apart from all of the other subsidized clubs and activities in Sun City. They were golf and 10 pin bowling. Somewhere in our documents (so i'm told but have never read it) is these two sports needed to be income neutral. Simply stated, they needed to produce enough revue to pay for themselves. Over the years there's been cry's by non-golfers the RCSc was footing the bill and not showing it. It's never been one of my worries because ultimately we own it all and are obligated to keep them all up. Golf courses were deeded to us into perpetuity so we need to figure out how to make them work for us. One of the solutions was to open both up for limited outside play. Initially that caused some alarm, but the fact is outside play helps cover the yearly costs to run them. And just as a footnote, when Sun City opened, DEVCO had open play, it helped market and sell the community. Costs to play golf in Sun City is adjusted yearly. Some years nothing or little, some years quite a bit. Sadly, as we raise greens fees, we usually loose rounds played. The trick is to not loose over-all revenue. But to your point, i want to see the number of rounds played per year, because that is ultimately the benchmark on whether investing 20 million or 40 million dollars in our courses makes sense. Back in 2011, the long range planning committee was asking for statistics to see if the money they were recommending be spent made sense. Tennis had been flat, but pickleball was growing like crazy. It was about targeting revenue where it would return the biggest bang for our buck. Coincidentally, after the LRPC recommended the board take on the Marinette project, they were promptly flushed down the toilet. At least some of those long range planning committee members felt the same kind of measuring stick be used to see if golf deserved that kind of money allocated (it was only about $30 million back then). We are and always will be a "golf course community." That said, we shouldn't be throwing money at a sport that is struggling to stay afloat. In my humble opinion, it's one of the reasons why the LRPC was flushed, they felt there should be some justification on how and where PIF fees were spent. You are spot on about this: Unless and until more residents get invloved, nothing will change the course (pun intended) we are on.
